Author Topic: Smokey rebuilt 350  (Read 7887 times)

Offline royhall

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2018, 08:46:23 AM »
Alright for some then. Have you bought any mass produced soap stone yet that was made by hand in the sellers village, keeps the village alive you know. ;)   Wait a minute, is that shaving foam behind your ear. Been there before. Will check the thread. Enjoy.
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline royhall

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2018, 09:05:31 AM »
I've read through that thread on net site,  and something they are missing which may have a parallel here is those ring markings vertically in the bores.

That says to me that the piston rings are not round when compressed into the bore,  else the ring's ends would not protrude further than their outside diameter (and make the marks you can see) that is not right. His question about black ring coating, and should it wear, shows that the rings are not touching the bores where the coating remains. They are, in effect, elliptical in shape. That will not seal the bores either oil going up,  or compression going down. It should be getting to something like 175 psi,  it's nowhere near.

Leakdown testing is only going to show efficiency in holding compression,  it'll not show oil retention ability as that's the opposite direction.

Exhaust valve guide leaking doesn't usually affect combustion chamber as it's introduced after the cylinder. It'll smoke yes, but just from passing oil into a hot exhaust system.
Inlet guides leaking usually show with throttle shut on overrun,  inlet vac goes high and pulls in oil,  when you get back on the throttle it'll puff out a single-ish cloud of blue smoke.

Looks like the rings aren't working as they should,  whether they'll bed in if they're not touching in the first place I doubt it. You'd, in effect, have to wear all of the "touching" parts of the ring down first before that process could even start to take place.
But as the first example of massive ring gap,  that's what you'd get by the time you had achieved the above. There's lots of evidence in that thread but it's not being connected.
That jumped out at me straight away after taking it apart, but seemed secondary to the head gasket issue. Have got some time today so am going to probe deeper. Just how good are these Cruzinimage piston kits, they look well made but it's concerning me now as the Cruzinimage gasket set was shite. Would like to find a +.25mm OEM piston set and rings for my spare barrel but that does not seem likely. Does anyone make quality piston rings that will fit the Cruzinimage pistons?
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2018, 09:16:05 AM »
Absolutely nothing wrong with Cruzin piston kits Roy. Anyway, no, I haven't bought anything from India, we don't do the 'normal' tourist stuff, more like travellers than tourists really. The locals know we don't fall for their sales pitches, so they don't try anymore ;D
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Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2018, 10:04:55 AM »
 That jumped out at me straight away after taking it apart, but seemed secondary to the head gasket issue. Have got some time today so am going to probe deeper. Just how good are these Cruzinimage piston kits, they look well made but it's concerning me now as the Cruzinimage gasket set was shite. Would like to find a +.25mm OEM piston set and rings for my spare barrel but that does not seem likely. Does anyone make quality piston rings that will fit the Cruzinimage pistons?
[/quote]

Hmm Crap gaskets ! ..crap inlet rubbers ! (I saw your horrid images of them !)  ..the jury's out on those rings. "Spoiling the the ship for a ha'peth of tar"  springs to mind  ;D
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 10:07:44 AM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline royhall

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2018, 11:00:43 AM »
That jumped out at me straight away after taking it apart, but seemed secondary to the head gasket issue. Have got some time today so am going to probe deeper. Just how good are these Cruzinimage piston kits, they look well made but it's concerning me now as the Cruzinimage gasket set was shite. Would like to find a +.25mm OEM piston set and rings for my spare barrel but that does not seem likely. Does anyone make quality piston rings that will fit the Cruzinimage pistons?

Hmm Crap gaskets ! ..crap inlet rubbers ! (I saw your horrid images of them !)  ..the jury's out on those rings. "Spoiling the the ship for a ha'peth of tar"  springs to mind  ;D 


Your probably right Ash. That's why it's going back together with all genuine gaskets and stem seals etc. Am looking for genuine pistons and rings also. Been bitten enough on this bike with pattern parts. The new front mudguard from Silvers is gently rusting away whilst the genuine re-chromed rear is still perfect.
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2018, 11:18:04 AM »
I am wondering with Cruzin rings that they buy from different sources at different times .. some good .. some not so good so a bit of a lottery... Only a theory. I bought four sets of Genuine CB125 single pistons & rings for my 500K0 .. almost identical parts (apart from valve cutaways, which I modded) but a fraction of the price NOS of 500 ones due to demand for latter. I twigged because someone listed CB125 piston and CB500K0/K1 was in the compatabily list. (and of course I checked with Bryan on here  :)  ) Three piece oil rings too.
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2018, 02:19:44 PM »
Should the clearance on Cruzin pistons / rings not be 1 thou Roy?. I know the genuine Honda pistons can go down to 0.0008 thou but I thought a tad more clearance was needed on the Cruzin kits. I can't ask Trig, I am not allowed to mention, Honda, bike, work or Forum whilst on our travels  ::) ::)
LINK TO MY EBAY PAGE. As many of you know already, I give 10% discount and do post at cost to forum members if you PM me direct.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/julies9731/m.html?item=165142672569&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

LINK TO MY CB400/4 ENGINE STRIP / ASSESSMENT AND REBUILD...NOW COMPLETE
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14049.msg112691/topicseen.html#new

Offline royhall

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2018, 02:50:30 PM »
Should the clearance on Cruzin pistons / rings not be 1 thou Roy?. I know the genuine Honda pistons can go down to 0.0008 thou but I thought a tad more clearance was needed on the Cruzin kits. I can't ask Trig, I am not allowed to mention, Honda, bike, work or Forum whilst on our travels  ::) ::)
Leave it until you get back Julie. Am going to PM Trig about a rebore anyway so will go through the possibilities then. Enjoy your holiday.
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline royhall

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2018, 04:30:12 PM »
Been back in the garage today to look at the pistons and barrels closely.

The vertical scores on the bores are no more than marks, cant feel them with a scriber or a finger nail. I have checked all the top rings in the bores and all gaps are 7 to 8 thou. The rings appear to have run-in evenly all the way around and do not have any damage or scoring, nor could I find any protruding ring ends. Don't know if it's worth checking the second and scraper rings as I don't want to risk damaging them getting them off the pistons, but I will check that they are all fitted the correct way up.

From what I see, I would say the barrels are good for re-assembly. Before then I am going to "engineers blue" the barrel top to head mating surface to check how they go together. Have already checked both are flat.

The problem I think, from the evidence left behind, was the Cruzinimage gasket set being rubbish, allowing oil to escape around the control jets then under the head gasket, there is quite a bit of oil pressure at that point. I don't think the two forward drains have caused any issues as there is no pressure there.

On next assembly only genuine Honda parts will be used, plus Trig has a trick with extra o-rings that hopefully he will chip in about on his return from India.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 04:34:25 PM by royhall »
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline MrDavo

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2018, 04:51:14 PM »
We should hire an Indian to follow Trigger everywhere on a Honda so obviously sick that eventually he has to take a look to see what's wrong with it...  8)

Didn't we have an issue with this company's rubber camchain tensioner wheels in the past?

The words don't, touch and bargepole spring to mind.
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Offline mart

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2018, 09:22:17 PM »
If the smoke is Black it my be over fueling /Flooding on the cylinders of which you speak . turn of the fuel tap and as the Fuel level lowers in the Carbs see if they stop smoking ..

Offline Rozabikes Tim

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2018, 09:36:50 PM »
If the smoke is Black it my be over fueling /Flooding on the cylinders of which you speak . turn of the fuel tap and as the Fuel level lowers in the Carbs see if they stop smoking ..
Possibly a bit difficult with head and barrels off ;)
One day I'll have the time to restore it, not just talk and dream....

Offline royhall

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2018, 09:10:01 AM »
If the smoke is Black it my be over fueling /Flooding on the cylinders of which you speak . turn of the fuel tap and as the Fuel level lowers in the Carbs see if they stop smoking ..
Thanks for the input. All the possible scenarios were checked out before the strip down, carbs and ignition were eliminated at that point. The problem is head gasket failure, plus some other minor issues.
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline Trigger

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2018, 11:43:26 AM »
We should hire an Indian to follow Trigger everywhere on a Honda so obviously sick that eventually he has to take a look to see what's wrong with it...  8)

Didn't we have an issue with this company's rubber camchain tensioner wheels in the past?

The words don't, touch and bargepole spring to mind.

why hire a Indian when you can hire a Enfield  ;D ;D ;D

 

Offline royhall

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Re: Smokey rebuilt 350
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2018, 09:30:47 AM »
Before I rush into rebuilding the top half of the 350F, I have been doing a bit of research into the smokey 350 issue. It appears that the Cruzinimage piston kits for the 350F may be duff,  but strangely nobody is reporting issues with the slightly larger 400F kits. I suspect it's more a problem with the cheap rings than the pistons. Has anyone had any success with the 350F kits, and is it possible to fit NOS Honda rings to Cruzinimage pistons? Daren't ask them directly as they have a habit of blacklisting and blocking people that ask too many questions, strange policy. It appears that just about everything I have had from this company has been duff (except the carb kits that worked very well).
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 09:35:42 AM by royhall »
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

 

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