Author Topic: CB550K3 - the secret of the perfect tickover  (Read 2369 times)

Offline Ashdowner

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CB550K3 - the secret of the perfect tickover
« on: July 06, 2017, 07:33:56 AM »
My P46A carbs are spotlessly clean inside. The jets are totally clear. The timing is spot on. Get the main jets into play and it runs superbly. But with vacuum gauges connected how do you adjust those pesky air screws to get the perfect tickover? At the mo the screws are all set to 1.1/2 turns out. Where do I go from here?
CB550K3, CB550K1, Yamaha Midnight Star, and CA77 in 2473 pieces (at the last count)

Offline hairygit

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Re: CB550K3 - the secret of the perfect tickover
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2017, 08:55:07 AM »
Vacuum gauges are for ensuring all 4 slides are in sync with one another, not for adjusting air screws!
If it's got tits or wheels, it's hassle, if it's got both, RUN!!!

Offline Bryanj

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Re: CB550K3 - the secret of the perfect tickover
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2017, 09:02:25 AM »
From experience with several K3's ANY tickover is a perfect tickover and first thing is have you removed and cleaned to perfection the press in pilot jets inside the last 8 weeks, if its stood longer than that do them again

Offline deltarider

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Re: CB550K3 - the secret of the perfect tickover
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 10:44:31 AM »
Also aim at 1100-1200 rpm, true rpm that is. Your onboard tacho maybe wrong!

Offline K2-K6

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Re: CB550K3 - the secret of the perfect tickover
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2017, 09:59:46 PM »
It's a funny thing that until very recently I've not understood what Honda have written in their manuals about this subject.
I've read it through quite a few times and we were discussing it recently in a question Julie posted about setting up on a 400,  but still I didn't realise what they've said and just how far reaching the routine is.

I agree with what hairygit has already stated, the syncing is for matching the carb slide height and not the tickover. I've always felt that for a lot of situations this is a bit of workshop theatre. OK, I know it's one way of getting the throttles equal without taking the bike apart and bench syncing them, that's fine. Bryanj has always referenced completing all other setup work prior to this and I couldn't agree more,  you are wasting your time otherwise with the potential to put more error onto the syncing if another issue is present.
Think it's Hondaman who says that this should agree at 3 to 5000rpm as well to get a real running representation. He seems to  know his onions as well as alot of other people's onions as well.  :)

It's common,  as on this post,  to set the idle jets all to a specific matching turn spec to get the idle more or less ok but the instructions don't say that.

That Honda manual text is so disarmingly simple but it covers off so many escape routes to get the job done.
It calls for you to start with no2 carb idle jet and open it out until you reach the highest rpm with throttles closed. Then turn the screw in until you get a 100rpm drop, then leave it. Readjust the main carb tickover set to correct the final revs to 1000rpm +/- 100. Then move to the other three carbs and do the same for each one instead no particular order. This definitely allows for an individual setting for each carb body.

So,  why do I think it's so good?
Firstly if you try adjusting each one, then you'll see if you get a response or not. This would tell you if one is blocked.
Secondly, each one by going to the fastest idle will account for any differences within that carburettor (idle circuit or throttle slide variance) or cylinder as it's using the best burn characteristic to pinpoint it. So you'll end up with parity of the idle circuits and cylinder to cylinder mixture match. Clever ha?
Thirdly,  it forces you to bring the throttle slides down until it runs properly on its idle circuits with the attendant fine adjustment and fuel metering that allows (the idle circuit is really a tiny carburettor)  and this is why you shouldn't do carb vac syncing at tickover ( the mains don't meter properly and the fine adjust of the slides is nowhere near as accurately resolved as idle circuit tapering) with the handover from one to another jet range taking place only when the throttle are partially open. Makes sense Hu? I thought that was very neat.

It's more or less what current engine strategy is doing via ecu nowadays, but the Honda method is by necessity open loop with no feedback,  it uses you as the loop closer in place of sensors and fast processing to. But it is the same thing contained within a different time frame.

If anyone has read "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance " how to adjust the idle screws on a motorcycle is central to the core argument placed of do you train people to theoretically pass an exam or practically to actually be able to do the job, really do the job in question.

Offline Ashdowner

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Re: CB550K3 - the secret of the perfect tickover
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2017, 10:19:56 PM »
Yep BryanJ I did it a week ago. I got it running today and too kit for a spin. Idle is inconsistent and the pickup on the throttle isn't what it was a few weeks ago. Will take it a run tomorrow and put it on the gauges and see where I am.
CB550K3, CB550K1, Yamaha Midnight Star, and CA77 in 2473 pieces (at the last count)

Offline deltarider

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Re: CB550K3 - the secret of the perfect tickover
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2017, 12:08:10 PM »
Quote
what Honda have written in their manuals about this subject.
What manual(s) are you referring to?

Offline K2-K6

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Re: CB550K3 - the secret of the perfect tickover
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2017, 01:58:10 PM »
This is in their shop manual for CB750 F2, carburettor types PD42A & PD42B.


Offline Piki

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Re: CB550K3 - the secret of the perfect tickover
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2017, 03:10:28 PM »
The secret for a correct tickover is take off  pd46A carbs and fits  a CB550 F model carbs,,,,,,,,,,, ;D ;D ;D

Offline totty

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Re: CB550K3 - the secret of the perfect tickover
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2017, 04:01:07 PM »
Whenever the bikes left standing for a while drain float bowls, fill with redex via the fuel pipe, kick it over to draw some through the jets, drain again when you next want to use it.
That sorted out and maintained the tickover when I had a k3.

 

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