Author Topic: Engine and frame no's  (Read 2330 times)

Offline Sparrow1

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Engine and frame no's
« on: August 16, 2017, 10:30:37 AM »
Hi guys,
  Although I found the old thread topic on this, 1, it's more then 120 days old and 2, it doesn't quite answer my question. The site recommends I start a new thread again.
  Bit confused on a K2 I'm looking at. Anyway the numbers are :frame 2074937 and engine 2049772. I've been doing some research and it seems possible to have numbers out (although still in the K2 era) as much as a few thousand. In this case probably around 2 - 4 months apart. I've had a K0 and I have a K3 presently (returned to UK spec) and the numbers in both of these were/are much closer as many of your threads confirm previously with theirs. Any thoughts? What if you were looking to buy this bike? the V5 confirms these numbers.
  Finally the MOT history contradicts the reg date claimed by the present owner, DVLA : July 1971 owner/V5 March 1974, in Scarborough. Do they make mistakes? Anyone come across this?
  Thanks, Nigel.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 10:36:33 AM by Sparrow1 »

Offline neilg

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Re: Engine and frame no's
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2017, 01:01:20 PM »
Firstly I can't answer as to whether these numbers are original, however the V5 will show what ever engine number is provided either on original registration by a dealer or a subsequent updated number after an engine swop with the number provided by the keeper at the time. So from the V5 you can't tell if the engine is original or not. Unless of course there is a large difference in manufacturing dates. And yes they most definitely do make mistakes. What prefix is on the registration plate?? That's the big clue as to the correct year. I think July 71 was J and March 74 on an M.

Offline Sparrow1

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Re: Engine and frame no's
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2017, 02:50:03 PM »
Hi Neil.
  Yes, indeed, it's on an 'M'. Even both engine and Frame no's are consistent with the K2, reg, and the V5. I wonder if the largish separation on these two numbers makes a difference to it's value? It certainly raises my eyebrow but not excessively.. I think a phone call to the DVLA may help. Anyone else have any ideas? Been here before?
  It's a pity the Brit market never received any engines with the improved upgrades, as in the next year, on the K3.. The European market semed far less important than the USA and Germany one. A long wait until the K6!
  Nigel.

Offline Bryanj

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Re: Engine and frame no's
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 04:06:22 PM »
The big difference in numbers is because in UK we kept getting K" whilst US had K3,4,5,6, and the engine numbers kept going up

Offline Sparrow1

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Re: Engine and frame no's
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2017, 05:26:28 PM »
Ah,
  Thanks Bryanj.
   And it appears to be a cock up within the DVSA dept. an MOT Inspector wrote the wrong year down.
    So the numbers are perfectly reasonable in the UK and to be expected from time to time. Thanks.
   Nige.
   

Offline Trigger

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Re: Engine and frame no's
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2017, 05:28:57 PM »
Hi Nigel, Have not seen you for a while mate.
If it is a UK K2, if so the numbers are correct as long as they start with 20**** and there was a few late registered into early 1973 with 20 engine numbers.
How can you have a K3 returned to UK spec ? We never had K3 in the UK. And Yes you can have mistakes on paperwork.

« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 05:44:21 PM by Trigger »

Offline sprinta

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Re: Engine and frame no's
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2017, 06:54:44 PM »
Firstly I can't answer as to whether these numbers are original, however the V5 will show what ever engine number is provided either on original registration by a dealer or a subsequent updated number after an engine swop with the number provided by the keeper at the time. So from the V5 you can't tell if the engine is original or not. Unless of course there is a large difference in manufacturing dates. And yes they most definitely do make mistakes. What prefix is on the registration plate?? That's the big clue as to the correct year. I think July 71 was J and March 74 on an M.

My understanding is that normally the engine number would be higher than the frame number so on the numbers you have given they are both K2 but the engine may be from an earlier bike than the one you have?

UK K2's, I believe, continued to have 20###### series frame numbers but they would have received the current latest engines in subsequent years. So that when the K3 were released the UK K2's would still have had 20###### frame numbers but the engine numbers would then have started from 22##### and then when the K4's were released they would have then start from 23##### and so on.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 06:57:09 PM by sprinta »

Offline Sparrow1

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Re: Engine and frame no's
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2017, 10:39:36 PM »
Trigger,
  Good to back! I have a lovely K3 and back in the 750 loop once again..👍😊
  Indeed, poor words regarding my K3. Yes, of course there was never a K3 and I hear ' pratt' quietly spoken by others. I love the Flake Orange (with a tad more flack in this one!) and wanted the Honda improvements on the engine. With all that the bike is back in UK spec featuring handle bars and UK rear 'subtle' lens and black bracket, along with the front indicators attached in the UK way - subtle changes but as close as I dare go, barring the colour of course. She can be retuned to US spec quite quickly.
   My heart lies in a UK K2 and has done so for a while. Hopefully not long now.. Having both of these bikes, in top notch, will make me a happy bunny and very fortunate. Cheers.
  Nige.

Offline Trigger

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Re: Engine and frame no's
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2017, 06:34:31 AM »
Trigger,
  Good to back! I have a lovely K3 and back in the 750 loop once again..👍😊
  Indeed, poor words regarding my K3. Yes, of course there was never a K3 and I hear ' pratt' quietly spoken by others. I love the Flake Orange (with a tad more flack in this one!) and wanted the Honda improvements on the engine. With all that the bike is back in UK spec featuring handle bars and UK rear 'subtle' lens and black bracket, along with the front indicators attached in the UK way - subtle changes but as close as I dare go, barring the colour of course. She can be retuned to US spec quite quickly.
   My heart lies in a UK K2 and has done so for a while. Hopefully not long now.. Having both of these bikes, in top notch, will make me a happy bunny and very fortunate. Cheers.
  Nige.

The K3 sounds nice, lets have a picture of her.
What about the rest of your collection, do you still have that stunning CB450 ?
I have always had a soft spot for the UK K2.

Offline Sparrow1

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Re: Engine and frame no's
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2017, 10:24:16 AM »
Morning Trigger.
  Ok, I'll dig one out.
  Indeed the Bomber is well and lovely. Wasn't sure if I was allowed to mention a 450 here! 😳
  Let you know about this K2. Have now spoken to the restorer - sounds promising.

  Nige.

Offline Sparrow1

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Re: Engine and frame no's
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2017, 04:33:42 PM »
Still trying to upload photos on this thread?! Strange, as My profile photo worked...🤔
  So, so put a closure on this, the engine number indeed proved to be a problem with this year and frame no. As Sprinta stated, later confirmed by Trigg, 220/230's are the correct no's for the later K2's and the 204 is from an earlier K2, Circa 1972 and was fitted to the 1974 frame due to common problem then of the chain letting go. The restorer replaced the engine in good faith, keeping it as close to the original frame no, an easy mistake to make many years ago. Now days, engines are repaired if feasible.  I've pulled out sadly but my thanks to all contributed to this thread and particularly to Trigger for guiding me through this - preventing an embarrassing resale value in years to come perhaps.
  Back to looking and trying to work why the this thread won't accept my IPad photos..hmmm..
  Nige.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 04:36:23 PM by Sparrow1 »

Offline Trigger

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Re: Engine and frame no's
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2017, 09:33:03 PM »
Still trying to upload photos on this thread?! Strange, as My profile photo worked...🤔
  So, so put a closure on this, the engine number indeed proved to be a problem with this year and frame no. As Sprinta stated, later confirmed by Trigg, 220/230's are the correct no's for the later K2's and the 204 is from an earlier K2, Circa 1972 and was fitted to the 1974 frame due to common problem then of the chain letting go. The restorer replaced the engine in good faith, keeping it as close to the original frame no, an easy mistake to make many years ago. Now days, engines are repaired if feasible.  I've pulled out sadly but my thanks to all contributed to this thread and particularly to Trigger for guiding me through this - preventing an embarrassing resale value in years to come perhaps.
  Back to looking and trying to work why the this thread won't accept my IPad photos..hmmm..
  Nige.

That's another beer you owe me  ;D ;D ;D

Offline Sparrow1

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Re: Engine and frame no's
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2017, 09:54:10 PM »
Indeed! A pleasure! 🍻

Offline Trigger

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Re: Engine and frame no's
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 10:13:57 PM »

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Engine and frame no's
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2017, 11:28:38 AM »
Morning Trigger.
  Ok, I'll dig one out.
  Indeed the Bomber is well and lovely. Wasn't sure if I was allowed to mention a 450 here! 😳
  Let you know about this K2. Have now spoken to the restorer - sounds promising.

  Nige.

Course you are allowed to mention your Bomber  on here in 'Other Bikes' section. I have one, albeit in a million bits, and sold a project one to a member on here a few months back ! Plus another member has just imported a flip front seat '67 one. So there are at least four of us on here including yourself who own one. I just scored a 'NOS in box' front guard for mine in Japan for £101  .. one happy bunny .. I told the guy to bid up to £330 (yes they are that rare) but nobody bid against us so it went for the start price. DS does repros for £330 but they don't look right IMHO because they have folded over front and rear edges.
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

 

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