Author Topic: The (Original) Black Bomber thread  (Read 9975 times)

Online AshimotoK0

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2017, 04:06:22 PM »
I only rode a Black Bomber once, as a student in UMIST bike club in the 70's we'd go up the Cat & Fiddle for a club run, where we'd all swap bikes at the pub and go for test rides. God knows who was insured for what, noone asked. Up there was also the first time I rode a Commando, Suzuki RE5 rotary, 500 and 750 Kawasaki triples, a CB400 and who knows what else.

As a teenager, once I had become interested in bikes and engineering, I borrowed various workshop and owners manuals from my local library, unusually one of the modern 'state of the art' bikes they had a manual for was the CB450 (which shows how long ago I was a teenager  ;D ). The thing that stuck in my mind was the torsion bar valve 'springs'. I get how a spring works, but I could never get my head round torsion bars - if you keep twisting and untwisting a piece of metal, why doesn't it get metal fatigue and break? Or a least stop being as 'springy'? Also, why? is it cheaper to make or does it give better control like desmos, ie no valve bounce at high revs?

See section 3 here Dave (pic is a snip from it)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/stqw7jm89xtt1rz/CB450%20Factory%20Service%20Manual%20.pdf?dl=0

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“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline SteveD CB500K0

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2017, 04:23:13 PM »
Takes me back...

stress strain curves :)
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Online K2-K6

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2017, 04:26:55 PM »
A coil spring is a torsion bar,  just wrapped up into a neat package to fit in smaller places.

Online AshimotoK0

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2017, 05:59:53 PM »
Takes me back...

stress strain curves :)

What ..to the days you too wore an anorak Steve ..!..
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline Woodside

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2017, 07:24:00 PM »
You never get rid of an anorak
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 07:57:48 PM by Woodside »

Online AshimotoK0

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2017, 07:34:21 PM »
Question for Orcadian: Do you ever remember any registered in Hull back in the 'day' ? I never did, I don't think Ken Blakey sold them possibly Miles did. The only time I ever saw one was in Jack Richie's scrapyard down the bottom of Temple street  in the mid 70's .. it had just come in for breaking as the big ends had gone ..or that's what Pat said, as he was rubbing his hands together as he always did. Like a vulture waiting to pull apart his prey. What a blooming place that was ... the 'junk' in there would be worth as absolute mint these days...mostly classic British stuff piled literally sky high.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 07:43:15 AM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline SteveD CB500K0

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2017, 07:53:54 PM »
Quote from: AshimotoK0

What ..to the days you too wore an anorak Steve ..!..
[/quote

University of Sussex School of Engineering. 1976-79




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Offline Orcade-Ian

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2017, 08:37:53 PM »
Ash,
I do think there was a guy at Hawker Siddeley who had one when I was serving my apprenticeship - he would have been mates with John Peacock and Roy Wilson but can't bring his name to mind.  I'll ask Keith Horsfield if he remembers any - it was Keith who first turned up on a new 400/4 when the best I'd ever had was a C12 Beezer.  I also remember one at Ritchie's scrap emporium, perhaps it was the same one you saw.  Ken Waslin (Lucas and Waslin, Hardy Street) had one in for something bigger than a normal service but don't know who owned it.
The Hull library and Archive has the registration records which were supposed to be destroyed - perhaps a visit might turn something up quite easily with such an unusual cylinder capacity.
K2-K6 beat me to the fact that coil springs are torsion springs if you consider just one small piece of the coil.
Ian

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2017, 09:01:59 PM »
Orcadian, in which field did you do your apprenticeship?

We wound small springs out of piano wire when apprentices,  which of course demonstrated (when used for its original purpose)  the resonance side of the material at differing levels.

Most of F1 and many other race cars use torsion bars for suspension nowadays. Also virtually every single road car is fitted with anti roll bars which are a free floating torsion bar linked to opposite wheels of the car.

I do think they are a curious choice for valve spring duty though.

Offline Orcade-Ian

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2017, 09:25:18 PM »
It was a big field by the side of the river Humber 🙈
Seriously though I served my apprenticeship with Hawker Siddeley Aviation in Brough, Yorkshire starting in the mid 60's, Beverley Transporters, Buccaneers, Harrier Wing and others.
Yes, perhaps a strange application for valve springs and Moggy Minor front suspension!!

Ian

Offline Bryanj

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2017, 09:37:27 PM »
And a lot of current 4x4's

Offline Sgt.Pinback

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2017, 03:04:17 PM »
James,

that bike is just outstanding and in good hands! Lovely patina.
Now I need one.

I have a NOS owners manual (in German) and a (German) sale brochure that I want to chare with you
cheers, Uli

Offline JamesH

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2017, 03:06:31 PM »
Thanks Uli, wow - check out those handlebar mounted indicators on the German model. Love it...!

Offline Sgt.Pinback

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2017, 03:20:17 PM »
Those are very hard to find.Almost everybody changed them.

I have one, but not sure if it for CB72/77 or 450 as well
cheers, Uli

Online AshimotoK0

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Re: The Black Bomber thread
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2017, 05:06:00 PM »
German 'winkers' here is Parts Book with them in ...my 'Bible' recently along with the Cb72/77 one as both bikes parts were mixed together.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jj3kxdzg2k8rklb/Honda%20CB450%20K0%20Parts%20List%20Manual.pdf?dl=0

CB72 winkers similar (lens same Part no) but different centre part nos for both models. Have not had chance to scan my Green CB72/77 Parts book yet .. but USA CB77 is in my Dropbox.

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“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

 

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