Author Topic: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration  (Read 31525 times)

Offline K2-K6

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #105 on: February 15, 2018, 09:53:51 AM »
Needs better photos to assess plus I'd to see if correct item.

https://www.ebay.at/itm/HONDA-CB-450K-Nockenwelle-Auslass-camshaft-ex-/253404326822?hash=item3b00132ba6

Any use?

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #106 on: February 15, 2018, 10:43:14 AM »
Needs better photos to assess plus I'd to see if correct item.

https://www.ebay.at/itm/HONDA-CB-450K-Nockenwelle-Auslass-camshaft-ex-/253404326822?hash=item3b00132ba6

Any use?

I got really nice CB72 cam & rockers from him but an overpriced rear rim, that I ended up not using .. wonder what he means by running marks?
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #107 on: February 15, 2018, 11:04:54 AM »
If it's nagging doubt you want, try this:



A very familiar shaped mark in the wheel at 10 O'clock. Absolutely no sign of Bubba's hammer here, I initially dismissed it as a water mark or something. However now its in the good light on my desk, on closer examination..

(a) Its almost exactly the same shape as the missing piece
(b) It doesn't show up too clearly in the photo, but if you look realy close there is a tiny knick at the right hand edge of the mark, at the very corner edge of the wheel. I remember spending hours polishing conrods because cracks start from knicks.

 :-\ :-\ :-\ :'(

The thought of that piece suddenly making a bid for freedom and wandering around the engine would definitely spoil my riding enjoyment, more so than just a pice of damping ring.

Thanks for that German eBay link, I found that one last night but couldn't see it today. A shame they don't say what year it is, I'll check to see if he has other 450 bits, that might give me a clue. they change mid K5. I think the running marks refer to the bearing journals, which do look pretty scored Would this do any harm in my cam holders, or just hold more oil? I would imagine if the alloy parts were also as worn you would have a problem, mine are OK. However it is this side of the pond, and therefore not subject to taxes etc. (Don't get me started on #@%$, please, or we'll soon be on page 15!) It is the best on eBay at the moment outside the US probably, DK have a couple of mingers.

I did email to ask what year or model its from, however picture #3 shows a keyway. Mine has a hole there, no keyway, I don't understand what the keyway could be for (oil retention?), as this bit runs in the bearing behind the points oil seal. Maybe they changed the way they built it up at the factory. The advance retard runs off that knockpin, same as mine.

I notice on DS's site that the cam that ends in 003 is shown as superceded by the later K5 one 013. That implies that they are compatible yes? A post on the twins site said the profile and tacho drive changed, but the tacho drive spindle is a seperate piece, driven by the slot, so this might be BS.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 04:01:45 PM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #108 on: February 15, 2018, 12:56:55 PM »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #109 on: February 15, 2018, 03:00:31 PM »
I made them an offer on just the exhaust cam, they are going to get back to me (the inlet cam is rough, as is the other exhaust cam they have). Its a lot to buy both considereing the inlet cam is dog rough, I'd struggle to sell it on (which makes it unlikely they will want to split them, but we'll see).

Another possibility is this one, about £46 delivered, no hidden extras. Rust wants cleaning up around the points seal, but servicable bearings and lobes as far as I can see:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-CB450-Exhaust-Camshaft-Cam-CB-450-CL450-CL/282824326730

The downside is a couple of weeks to get here from Georgia USA, but the stator cover came way before eBay's estimate.

What do you think? Slow to get here but less marking on the bearings than the German ones, the DK ones are a bit of an unknown quantity, but the cheapest if they'll split.

EDIT: DK won't split, so its an expensive cam that you can't see too well, with a free paperweight. Georgia then I think.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 05:32:18 PM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #110 on: February 15, 2018, 05:36:20 PM »
Hmm .. the good think about DK is no quibble if you are not happy when you receive the item. If I want to negotiate anything I usually call and ask for Becky in eBay sales . The rest of them are usually too busy to talk to you but she's good at sorting stuff / deals out .. she may not even be there now but worth a try ....  it's about a year since I last 'negotiated' though.  They may even have other ones Dave, not listed yet. Always worth a try. If you have ever been there you really appreciate the tons of parts they have.
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #111 on: February 15, 2018, 05:46:54 PM »
I spoke to Becky, she said she didn't think they would split them if they were being sold as a pair, but to message them so the partners could consider my offer, partners say no.

Hard tpo tell if its the light, but picture #2 seems to show one heck of a scuff on the lobe of the exhaust tacho side.

They have a couple of others but they aren't great. I appreciate the point about returns, they let me send an incomplete front brake cable back, no quibbles. I'd like to buy the best one I can first time if possible.

What do you think of the one in Georgia?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 05:56:15 PM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline K2-K6

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #112 on: February 15, 2018, 06:26:51 PM »
From what you can see of the Georgian one it looks potentially good. It seems to have low to close to zero scuffing around the base circle,  indicating that it's been run with enough clearance / gap to avoid some of the problems they develop.

Has it any followers to go with it?

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #113 on: February 15, 2018, 06:48:45 PM »
Quote
Has it any followers to go with it?

No, he had a set of CB350 ones, but searching through his other stuff, a very random selection, I found this cam:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1972-HONDA-CB450-EXHAUST-CAMSHAFT-CAM-DOHC-CB-450-CL450-CL/282847634324

Quite a bit more expensive than the other one, but probably the best one I've seen for sale. Pretty similar to the one I've got, apart from the bits missing on mine. 

Some of the extra may be because of the dampers though, which I will be replacing anyway. With carriage and import taxes (no surprises from Parcelfarce, which is how things should be) about £76 delivered. A lot, but with these things you should try to buy the best you can afford.
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline K2-K6

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #114 on: February 15, 2018, 07:01:54 PM »
That last one does look good.

It's a pain that often the depth of focus doesn't always cover the critical areas on them, but he seems to have caught it on that one. I'd agree with your assessment, that it looks the best of the ones seen so far. Although more cost,  if it offers the solution it gives a good resolution to your immediate problem.

It's a real shame that your original is so good, but bludgeoned. I don't know how they are assembled but there maybe (if you successfully replace it) a route for someone to modify that one to make it serviceable.

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #115 on: February 15, 2018, 07:24:11 PM »
Bought it.  :)

What on earth happened to my original we will never know. Once I get the replacement I am going to test how close to falling off that second chunk was. It could have really urinated on my French fries.
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline K2-K6

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #116 on: February 15, 2018, 08:00:34 PM »
Fingers crossed that it's as good as it looks.

Don't know if yove seen this https://m.facebook.com/Team-Hansen-Honda-116916108330930/ they're obviously getting the cams made,  so if the blanks are batch produced, could there by a supply route to get somewhere here to grind them with original profile.

Maybe a group buy solution if enough people could be interested and given that there's so much of a scarcity of good examples.

Offline jensen

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #117 on: February 16, 2018, 06:18:26 AM »
I think I know what happened  >:(

Sometimes the cam bearing are stuck and the gasket between head and bearing like works like glue.
There are people out there who take a hammer and hit the cam sideways to get these bearings loose, instead of using a piece of wood and being gently.

I have at least 6 or 7 of these cam’s, 4 ex and 2 in. I think the ex cam bearing are sticking harder then the intakes, because of the heat.

Jensen
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 06:19:59 AM by jensen »
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Offline royhall

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #118 on: February 16, 2018, 08:22:25 AM »
I think I know what happened  >:(

Sometimes the cam bearing are stuck and the gasket between head and bearing like works like glue.
There are people out there who take a hammer and hit the cam sideways to get these bearings loose, instead of using a piece of wood and being gently.

I have at least 6 or 7 of these cam’s, 4 ex and 2 in. I think the ex cam bearing are sticking harder then the intakes, because of the heat.

Jensen
Why do they stick Jensen, is it through lack of use?
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Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #119 on: February 16, 2018, 09:26:38 AM »
Jensen will correct me if I’m wrong but I think he’s not saying that the cam bearings have seized, but that they won’t come out, because the gaskets are stuck on to the head and bearing carrier. Heat and time make this much worse.

I had a huge problem with this with my CB750, when I couldn’t get the base gasket to unstick. At first I tried keyhole surgery with the barrel still attached to the crankcase, but eventually had to resort to force, fortunately without damage.
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

 

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