Author Topic: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration  (Read 31492 times)

Offline jensen

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #120 on: February 17, 2018, 12:46:58 PM »
Hi,

I won't correct you, you're right, that's what I meant  ;)
btw, sorry for my English, sometimes I can't find the right words or way to say it,
so it might be unclear what I'm talking about to someone else.

Jensen
assembly of Japanese motorcycles requires great peace of mind (Pirsig)

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #121 on: March 01, 2018, 07:24:15 PM »
I realise there are people freezing out there, but our current weather is frustrating- my cam has been on the other side of Manchester and due for delivery for the last two days, my parts order from DS is similarly somewhere out there stuck in a snowdrift.

If things can just get here by the weekend I can get on with the head.
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #122 on: March 05, 2018, 10:26:50 AM »
Very frustrating, as this weekend was the last chance for a while to be in the garage for any length of time. saturday we walked in the snows to a foodie pub, got there too early and carried on to another, for a few pints of Reverend James' and some crisps. By the time we floated back past the foodie pub, lunch was over, so we made do with the crisps we'd had.  :D  Sunday I mostly stayed in and watched the H&H auction online.

The cam came, eventually, all the way from Georgia, but my packet with oil seals, damper rings etc from D Silvers is somewhere out there in the postal backlog, so I can't fit anything yet.

As you can see, the replacement cam (nearest the camera) is in even better knick than my original, hardly a mark on it. Perhaps this is an upside of choosing a bike that was often used often as a 'toy', rather than commuting week in week out for years with indifferent maintainence.



The stainless screws for the tank badges turned up, the first ones I'd bought were too short, although being the length Honda quote in the parts book. Anyhow I can now fit them to see how they look, one day the tank will be Menno's finest Candy Blue, of course. Badges are hard to find as it is (mine were long knicked), almost impossible with the '450' as well, so I'm chuffed with these, from California via eBay.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 03:58:25 PM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline K2-K6

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #123 on: March 05, 2018, 06:27:59 PM »
Nice buy,  it looks even better than the seller photos.

At least you can now be confident of the rebuild.

The original could still be useful to someone with the general condition being very good apart from the obvious. I suppose we look at it from a repair point of view as trying to reinstate to original, but it could be possible for someone to machine it down and make bespoke flanges to fit and make it useful again. I don't know the original construction method though.

Offline JamesH

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #124 on: March 06, 2018, 07:54:29 AM »

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #125 on: March 06, 2018, 10:33:28 AM »
What, you mean my new airboxes? Thanks for the heads up James, Ashley kindly offered me a pair of the plastic cases, but as these ones had both the mounting studs and those funny triangular rubber horns that are so $ extortionate to buy new, and were in the UK for a change (DK) I clicked 'buy it now' as soon as I saw them. The fact that the inlets are FUBAR doesn't matter, as I have new filters from the States.

My parcel from Silvers turned up yesterday, so I got the chance to nip in the garage last night for a bit while she watched 'Coro'.

I tried on the NOS gearlever, now the right shape to make those all too common curved gouges in the stator cover when you fall off, which I could also temporarily fit with the new screws (originals well butchered by the PO and his blunt random screwdriver) and o rings. I was disappointed that the screws aren't plated silver, by the way, they are black. I'd given the cover a polish, but it still has a 'spotty' finish, so I think I'll attack it with some P800 and repolish.



I also fit the new kickstart seal and fastened up the primary side, then set about the cam damper rings. I thought they would take seconds to cut, but they had gone rock hard with age (actually, isn't that how they make rocks - take soft things and wait a VERY long time?) In the end I resorted to getting a part of each ring smoking with the blowlamp and piercing it with a small electrical screwdriver. Probably not best practice, but it worked.




In the bottom picture the rings on the exhaust cam have been changed, the inlet nearest the camera still has the originals. Its interesting that the inlet cam is all one casting, where the damper rings and sprocket on the exhaust is machined from a seperate piece of bronze material, I don't know why. The new rings are very soft, just as well as they have to stretch to fit, I'm sure they will work much quieter.

I'm sure my old cam could be reused, either without dampers or with the old rings, they are so hard I doubt they would make a bid for freedom. You couldn't remake just the retaining rings though as they are integral with the sprocket.

Finally I found some nice pictures of a restored very low mileage CL450 in the States to help inspire me, if I lived there I'd probably snap his hand off at $4,100, thats about three grand! Mine has the right tank badges on both sides though ;)

http://www.2040-motos.com/Honda/CL/honda-cl450-cl-450-scrambler-1968-k1-early-model-street-scrambler-7004/



 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 03:59:13 PM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline JamesH

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #126 on: March 06, 2018, 11:56:29 AM »
Dave - sorry I meant the plastic covers. But I did notice the fittings / hardware so glad it helped...

J

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #127 on: March 08, 2018, 12:48:14 PM »
It did help, James, thanks, my box from DK turned up yesterday so I got back in the garage last night to try them on.

I fitted one of my new copy filters into the plastic box, fine, then fitted it in place using the mounting stud and the front bolt.



Then the moment of truth, as I'm using bits off more than one bike, will the cover fit? Straight on, everything lined up including the new stainless screw, made in Italy, bought from California. If you're reading this James, where did you get your sidepanel badges? Does Piki do them or did you have to use the guy on eBay who sells a pack of 3 (in case you mess up) for a King's ransom?



Back to the engine, I was going to fit the oil filter cover, but I realised it had been chewed up by the brake pedal in an off (I got another, straighter pedal from DK as well, mine had been knocked back into shape with a sledgehammer apparently). The cover is scuffed too deeply to polish out, so I nipped back in and ordered a better one on eBay. 

The camchain idler wheel at the top had a lot of noisy sideplay and no rubber O ring between camwheel and spindle, so that got fixed, its nice and quiet now. Fit two O rings and it hardly moves at all, I must look more closely at the parts diagrams, and not waste money buying things I don't need.



I then lubed and fitted the inlet valves, and fastened down those pesky oil seals. Then as I was in there, I fitted the torsion bars to the valves. There is a knockpin that locates the bar in the right place, a bolt goes through. I'd seen a post on the twins forum by Jensen saying not to force the arm over the knockpin, as that puts a sideways bending force on the valve, so I gently warmed the head to pull the pins out.



It was then easy to turn the torsion bars so they held the collets in the right place, with a 14mm spanner, to get the knockpins and bolts back in.



Then in with the cam followers and eccentric spindles. I'd kept each valve and its hardware in a seperate freezer bag so nothing got mixed up. The red stuff is Redline assembly lube, buy the way, not my blood for once.



This seemed a good time to pack up, but I was on a roll, and wanted to know if the inlet cam fit without any excessive sideplay, in case I needed a shim - there was none fitted on the inlet when it came apart, and it was the same cam and carriers, though the gasket thickness matters, that's how Jensen adjusts his sideplay.



I put the cam in with the backs of the lobes nearest the followers, it turns just as far as the timing mark. I found that taking all these pictures as it came apart came in handy to work out what screws went where, so  was glad I'm doing this writeup. Side clearance was 10 thou, within the acceptable range, so no shim needed.


« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 04:00:32 PM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline JamesH

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #128 on: March 08, 2018, 02:42:09 PM »
Great progress Dave. Your posts do make me giggle... Looks like you've got good momentum now.

In terms of the side covers - I was really lucky with the blue bike. The side covers and badges were perfect. So before sending the covers to menno wit the tank I gently heated the reverse side of the panel with a hot air gun (to loosen the factory applied adhesive) and gently pried them off.

You might want to consider stripping/refurbishing yours?

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #129 on: March 08, 2018, 05:09:49 PM »


I doubt I could as they are very weather faded. They aren't really stickers, more badges, but the hard part would be restoring the chrome finish on the silver bit.

I may have to give it a go with the silver polish though to see what happens, as $90 for incorrect stickers sent to the Uk is taking the mick, unless I can find two people who have an extra left from his set of three! :)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-1968-CB450-CL450-SIDE-COVER-3-DECALS-EMBLEMS-GRAPHICS-AIR-BOX-COVER/292039903048

However that's cheap compared to the actual badges rather than vinyl stickers:

NOS Honda ones, only about £120 the pair posted  ::)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NOS-Original-Honda-1968-CB450K1-Side-Cover-Emblems/222858215635

I found another source of replicas http://kz900.com/emblems-hon.html $70 EACH plus carriage taxes etc - God's teeth!  >:( Are they carved from unicorn horns?

CMSNL list it for the CB450 K1 (same emblem) at Eu10, but at that price they have none of course.

You can get the whole bl**dy covers for less, but that doesn't help. I'm guessing not the easiest thing to replicate because of the metallic finish though, are you reading this Piki?

Thinking about it, it may not be beyond the wit of man to rechrome the buggers. I have a couple of other bits that need chroming like the cable guide between the bars, I found one but it's rusty.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 05:17:56 PM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline hairygit

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #130 on: March 08, 2018, 05:13:54 PM »
I don't think Piki would have a problem with the chrome finish, he makes the chain info stickers for chain guards with that chrome like finish.

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Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #131 on: March 08, 2018, 06:01:51 PM »
I just had a test rub with some Duragilt, and although the paint is very faded on the offside badge, the chrome comes up better than I expected.

I will persevere, as the paint is the easy bit due to the 3D nature of the badge, James may have saved me some serious cash by suggesting I restore them.
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #132 on: March 09, 2018, 12:34:00 AM »
What’s the badge made of, is it chromed monkey metal, in which case you could polish the finish off, or polished alloy?
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline JamesH

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #133 on: March 12, 2018, 05:48:32 PM »

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #134 on: March 13, 2018, 12:52:13 PM »
I know James, I got an eBay saved search alert on those this morning, meanwhile my much more expensive new SL350 bars have landed at East Midlands airport, from Long Beach CA, via Kentucky. Typical.

I see the UK seller fell victim to the smaller gap between the clamps on the CL350 - he should have used a jelly baby! I'll try my new ones first when they show up, but if there are problems I have these UK ones bookmarked. The chrome isn't as good but they are the right ones and in the UK - where were they when I needed them?  ::)

I was in the garage Sunday and last night, the engine is neary finished!

First I put the exhaust valve gear and cam in, then I set the tappet clearances on the backs of the cam lobes. I haven't checked now the head is on using the timing marks yet, it shouldn't have changed though. Left piston is at the TDC mark ready to time up the cams.



Next I put the head over the studs, but I didnt want it to go all the way so I could thread the wires on the camchain though the rollers. I have no doubt that Honda will use a can of pickled crabs or something, and not Heinz Big Soup.



Head on, chain up as far as the head, ready to thread the wire over the cam wheels and under the idler sprocket in the middle.



Once I had the chain in the right place and the cams on their marks I lockwired the chain ends together ready to fit the link. I used to use those lockwire pliers all the time when I did classic racing, they spin when you pull on a knob at the bottom.  Paper stuffed everywhere in case tiny chain parts fall in, which would be a disaster. The inlet cam was slightly pressing on a valve, which made it tricky to keep on the marks, it all wanted to jump a tooth.



A moment of truth as I rivet the chain up, the tool's instructions in Chinese didn't help, I had to work it out for myself. There was just enough room, note the subtle but bang on cam timing marks on the right.



The staking looks Ok to me, I turned it over a couple of times and the marks were right and it stayed tight.



 I took the paper out of the inlets, fitted the inlet stubs ( softened from rock hard in Ashley's magic brew) and camchain tensioner, put the plugs in, kickstarter on - behold, compression!



A bit more turning and oil came out of the filter housing, so the pump works.



On with the filter cover I bought the other day on eBay, very quick delivery, very tight fit. New Honda screws.



The kickstart return spring is a bit limp and rubbish, but it seemed to be on right, maybe I need to lubricate the new tight oil seal? I've found a few Honda Twins threads about this on the 450 and 350, so I'm not the only one, no definitive cure though.

I'd like to see if I can get oil at the top end, is there any reason why I can't use the CB750 battery direct to the starter?

Plugs in or out? (I don't want to burn the starter out!). I may strap the stand down to the bench if I do, I dont want the engine bouncing off the 911 bonnet really, that would take a lot of T-Cut to polish out.  :)





« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 03:18:41 PM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

 

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