1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration

[MrDavo]

Another thing I decided on my test ride was that while it is all very nice having the original Decarbon gas shocks, at 70mph on the bumpy 'Isle of Skye' road over Saddleworth Moor, it didn't feel as if there was a lot of damping going on. Frankly it all felt a bit scary at times, the CL's shorter trail and higher stance probably doesn't help either.

Shocks listed for the CB450 and 500T also say they fit CL450's, whether the originals had a different spring rate or settings for occasional off road use I don't know.

I'll probably go for a TEC set, they look right and improved my CB750 no end, as well as being at a reasonable price. I have also seen EMGO ones that look close to the OEM shocks but cost a lot more than the TEC ones, and I have seen some not great reviews.

My originals would be great for someone who wants a show bike, using genuine OEM parts, and aren't too fussed about being stable at speed.

[MrDavo]

The splines on my gearshift shaft are shot, the pedal (new) is slipping on the shaft. No doubt the offs that cut a nice arc with the gear lever into the alternator cover won’t have helped.

New spindles are unobtainable, the obvious solution seems to be to open up the slot in the pedal for a tighter grip. Unless anyone has a decent second hand shaft, anyone got a better solution?

[the-chauffeur]

Is this one in any better condition than yours?  The teeth all seem to be intact if a little worn.  AFAIK the CB and CL mechanisms from that period are pretty much interchangeable (the part #'s are identical - 24610-292-030).

Might be worth picking up anyway for what's known as the pizza cutter selector part shown prominently in the fourth image.  Those things are the main weak point of the 450 gearshift mechanism and when they go, finding gears gets very hard.  Decent ones are very hard to come by now. 

[JamesH]

The splines on my gearshift shaft are shot, the pedal (new) is slipping on the shaft. No doubt the offs that cut a nice arc with the gear lever into the alternator cover won’t have helped.

New spindles are unobtainable, the obvious solution seems to be to open up the slot in the pedal for a tighter grip. Unless anyone has a decent second hand shaft, anyone got a better solution?

Dave - only other suggestion I thought may work would be to drill / tap a hole on the underside of the gear lever itself and use a cone tipped grub screw to provide a bit more ‘grip’ on the shaft. You’d probably also need to run a drill tip part way into the shaft to provide a seat for the cone. Might be a bit convoluted.?

[AshimotoK0]

Will a CB500T one fit ? it's a 292-040 part?

Could you take a shaft off another model and weld it to your existing mechanism?

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Honda-CB-500-T-Bj-1975-1977-Schaltwelle-N1498/402048474746?hash=item5d9bf4de7a:g:xTMAAOSwdnNeKb7n

[AshimotoK0]

Or how about this?

Owner of business Werner is pretty clued up on Honda  spare parts compatibility.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-CB-450K-Schaltwelle-shift-shaft-/373013202164?hash=item56d951c4f4

[MrDavo]

Thanks for your replies. Below is a picture of the shaft, it doesn't look that bad. frankly the lever splines are in worse shape, despite it being a NOS one I got from Silvers. Clearly slipping on the shaft hasn't done it any good. Of course even just whipping the lever off wasn't straightforward, as the footrest was in the way.




James' solution looks like a good last resort cure, however I'd need to find the right screw, as well as buy a matching tap.

the-chauffeur's ebay shaft looks in worse shape than mine. It may be worth buying for the pizza wheel in the long term though, however as with all my engine internals I was lucky that my engine appears to be low mileage, and mine was in very good shape.

Of the two that ash found, the CB500T one looks in good (possibly even NOS) shape, however with a slightly different number (040) I'd need to know it fit, as I found with the oil pump 'con rod', even a slight difference can lead to unforseen issues. I may search the twins forum to see if I can find out. Not sure if he posts to the UK as the ad is all in German. The other one, there's only 1 photo it isn't clear whether its any better than mine. I don't do welding, and a part that would leave me stranded if the weld failed probably isn't a good thing to learn on, though I could pay someone to do it properly.

I'm still tempted to try and cut the slot wider, as I tightened until it closed completely, but the lever still slipped.

[AshimotoK0]

Dave ..... Werner ships to the UK all of the time .. he is shipping me a late CB550F cam cover with the pinned shafts next week. He may even know if the 500T one will fit plus he has a lot of stock not on eBay yet (like my cover for example).

You can ask him here and may geta better deal direct. He speaks very good English and seems to know his stuff on Hondas. Much easier to deal with regarding questions on items than DK.

sayonara-cycles@web.de

[royhall]

Sorry Dave that shaft is finished as far as the splines are concerned.

I would definitely go with the grub screw fix as a set of taps versus stripping the engine is a no brainer.

I have also fixed these on kick starts by drilling right through the lever and shaft and fitting a spring roll dowel. Worked very well and was a permanent fix and removable. Only, the rivet counters would be up in arms about a fix like that and would probably hang you.

The shaft has had it anyway so what's to lose. I know it's only a partial strip with engine staying in the frame but still a lot of work compared to a dowel.

[MrDavo]

Grub screw it is, then, if Roy says its shot I'll take his word for it. It didn't look that bad to me, but he knows his onions (and Hondas).

I seem to have found a source, if so what size do you recommend? Obviously I want to get the screw first, then buy a tap. Somewhere I have the T piece part, if I can find it that is (Probably with my set of Whitworth taps, which I haven't used or seen for years).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CONE-POINT-GRUB-SCREWS-ALLEN-SOCKET-BOLTS-M3-M4-M5-M6-M8-M10-A2-STAINLESS-STEEL/182216457364

As far as the rivet counters go, there is already such a grub screw retaining a large nut on the end of the non standard rear brake / centre stand bolt. If anyone's that picky I'll tell them to get a life (or point out it's actually a K2 in K1 clothing and really blow their minds).

[AshimotoK0]

Personaly I don't think that 'fix' is rivet counter territory. More like spot the bodge territory ..or Bubbas's been there.

 I  think I would do that fix as a temporary expedient but get hold of a replacement shaft and even if you never need to fit it you can hand it to any new owner and show your hand. After all you went to a lot of trouble to build the bike to a very high standard.

Nobody has mentioned two blobs of weld yet 

[royhall]

That fix would be going on mine to keep the bike on the road for the summer. Also gives you time to find a decent shaft instead of having to buy the first thing you see. Shame all the jumbles are cancelled. Nice little project for the winter months. Cheers Bubba Roy.

Not a chance a fix like that would stay on one of my bikes after the riding season was over. However I have done the dowel trick a few times for other people and every one has ended up a permanent fix.

[MrDavo]

According to a couple of posts on the US twins forum, spindles off any 5 speed 450 / 500 are interchangeable, so I’m very tempted to order the 500T NOS looking one that Ash first listed, I’d rather do a permanent fix even if I do have to strip the primary drive to do it. The part number is subtly different however the 500t one fits the CB450 K5, and so does mine, according to CMS even though my 030 one isn’t listed for the 500T and vice versa, the 040 isn’t listed for the K2.

Update: just bought it! It was 44 Eu with postage, CMS listed it at 113 plus p&p, though not in stock. Here’s hoping it fits.

The other used ones are worse than mine, and if I don’t have to weaken the new shift lever by drilling a hole in it I won’t.

[AshimotoK0]

Nice one Dave .. I have been looking at this and Roys 450 restoration logs  over the lockdown,  as I am getting everything together for my own '67 Bomber engine.
Quick question though .. when looking for an exhaust cam (mine has good journals but one quite deep pit on one lobe) .. at what year /model was there a change in design so that it won't fit an earlier 450? How do you recognise the changes?  I tried calling Newman Cams a few times  yesterday but no reply although they are still operating according to their FaceBook site. My general feel from talking to Franco Cappenelli is that any deep pit needs hard welding and I am not sure how cost effective that may be versus getting a decent used cam. Buying used is such a lottery though and at least with the one I have I know the journals and lift are good. Luckily the inlet cam is near perfect and I have 4 very decent cam followers.

Well ... not so quick question in the end 

[MrDavo]

I can’t tell you exactly when it changed, but a point to watch is the drive for the points advance retard gubbins. Later versions seem to have a slot for a woodruff key, mine has a hardened pin, driven in at a right angle just outboard of the last ‘step’ which engages with a slot in the back of the advance unit.

As mine is a ‘69 bike it may well be the same arrangement as your ‘67, just make sure you look very closely at seller’s photos of that area as they are not interchangeable.

Some have, like mine, three diameters outboard of the left hand cam, later ones have four.

Edit: looking at the CB500T strip article you posted on your Dropbox, that still has the pin, but also the four diameters, maybe that’s the difference I remember, just look very closely at that area and compare with what you’ve got, as I had to.

I had a look at what’s available on eBay, some I wouldn’t even use as a paperweight. My original is on my office windowsill, perfect lobes but broken damper ring retainer, you are welcome to it if you don’t find a better one. However as I reasoned, there’s always a risk that the damper ring makes a bid for freedom and blocks an oil way somewhere.