Author Topic: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration  (Read 5182 times)

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #135 on: March 13, 2018, 12:52:13 PM »
I know James, I got an eBay saved search alert on those this morning, meanwhile my much more expensive new SL350 bars have landed at East Midlands airport, from Long Beach CA, via Kentucky. Typical.

I see the UK seller fell victim to the smaller gap between the clamps on the CL350 - he should have used a jelly baby! I'll try my new ones first when they show up, but if there are problems I have these UK ones bookmarked. The chrome isn't as good but they are the right ones and in the UK - where were they when I needed them?  ::)

I was in the garage Sunday and last night, the engine is neary finished!

First I put the exhaust valve gear and cam in, then I set the tappet clearances on the backs of the cam lobes. I haven't checked now the head is on using the timing marks yet, it shouldn't have changed though. Left piston is at the TDC mark ready to time up the cams.



Next I put the head over the studs, but I didnt want it to go all the way so I could thread the wires on the camchain though the rollers. I have no doubt that Honda will use a can of pickled crabs or something, and not Heinz Big Soup.



Head on, chain up as far as the head, ready to thread the wire over the cam wheels and under the idler sprocket in the middle.



Once I had the chain in the right place and the cams on their marks I lockwired the chain ends together ready to fit the link. I used to use those lockwire pliers all the time when I did classic racing, they spin when you pull on a knob at the bottom.  Paper stuffed everywhere in case tiny chain parts fall in, which would be a disaster. The inlet cam was slightly pressing on a valve, which made it tricky to keep on the marks, it all wanted to jump a tooth.



A moment of truth as I rivet the chain up, the tool's instructions in Chinese didn't help, I had to work it out for myself. There was just enough room, note the subtle but bang on cam timing marks on the right.



The staking looks Ok to me, I turned it over a couple of times and the marks were right and it stayed tight.



 I took the paper out of the inlets, fitted the inlet stubs ( softened from rock hard in Ashley's magic brew) and camchain tensioner, put the plugs in, kickstarter on - behold, compression!



A bit more turning and oil came out of the filter housing, so the pump works.



On with the filter cover I bought the other day on eBay, very quick delivery, very tight fit. New Honda screws.



The kickstart return spring is a bit limp and rubbish, but it seemed to be on right, maybe I need to lubricate the new tight oil seal? I've found a few Honda Twins threads about this on the 450 and 350, so I'm not the only one, no definitive cure though.

I'd like to see if I can get oil at the top end, is there any reason why I can't use the CB750 battery direct to the starter?

Plugs in or out? (I don't want to burn the starter out!). I may strap the stand down to the bench if I do, I dont want the engine bouncing off the 911 bonnet really, that would take a lot of T-Cut to polish out.  :)





« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 03:18:41 PM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Dual Sport'
1971 Honda CB750 K1 'General Export Type' (from South Africa)
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster

Offline Johnwebley

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #136 on: March 13, 2018, 01:25:31 PM »
I would go plugs out,and spin it up

 great pictures ,

lifelong motorcycle rider,and fan

Offline K2-K6

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #137 on: March 13, 2018, 06:22:19 PM »
Good progress,  and pictures.

I'd do the same,  plugs out and spin it if all set up ok.

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #138 on: March 14, 2018, 02:40:46 PM »
Looking at photos of the used CL450 bars for sale on eBay, I've realised that when my SL350 ones show up, the first thing I'm going to have to do is make a big hole in them, as there are no cables from the left hand  bar on the SL (there is a hole to locate the clutch lever peg). I reckon three large overlapping holes should give me the slot I want, I'll be mirroring what's on the other side. I may need to file any sharp edges I make though, I don't want to make a short circuit.

Last night I redadjusted the valve clearances with the rotor on the TDC marks, two were a bit tight, the other two were fine.

Then, as suggested, I took the plugs out and connected the CB750 battery direct to the starter motor and earth. I had cleaned and checked the starter, still it was probably the first time it had been used in years, so I was glad to find it worked OK.



As suggested in the manual, I took one of the nuts off on the head studs where there is a copper washer, and waited until oil appeared. Then I kept turning until I saw it at the camshafts:





I stopped once the battery was getting flat and the cables were hot. I was tempted to have another go once the battery is recharged, but I'm not sure what the point would be. I know oil is going where it should, it will get plenty more when it is running under its own steam I hope.

Next I'll fit and static time the points, I'm more or less done with the motor then.

I notice I'm missing a large O ring in the chaincase cover where the oil filter end cap goes in - theres a new one on the cap, but there should be one in the case too. I'm damned if I'm paying a £6 delivery charge on it though, so it will have to wait until I inevitably need more bits from Mr Silver. There ought to be better oil pressure with it in place, there wasn't one there when I stripped it, looking at the photos.
1969 Honda CL450 'Dual Sport'
1971 Honda CB750 K1 'General Export Type' (from South Africa)
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #139 on: March 16, 2018, 03:10:32 PM »
I found there was an O ring in the clutch cover when I took it off, so I fitted that for now. I was disappointed to find the right inlet cam bearing cover (left) was leaking oil when I went back in the garage:



That manky screw at the bottom wasn't the correct one, I found a longer one and swapped it. I couldn't take the cover right off, as it supports the cam, but pulled it out far enough to apply a smear of sealant with a screwdriver tip.  All tightened up I have cranked the motor over some more to test for oil tightness, it appears to be OK now. The last thing I want is a leaky Honda, my mates with Brit bikes at the BMPS would never let me hear the last of it.

My bars turned up from California at last this morning, for a 1970 SL350 they measure the same as James' CL ones in every way apart from the width, at 820mm the same as the ones on his 500.

Thery don't look over wide on the bike, and the reinforced centre tube will fit between the clamps OK.



As predicted I will need to make a slot for the cables on the clutch side, as there are none on an SL. Top are my bars, below a photo I pinched from the listing for a pair of CL450 bars on eBay.





I don't know yet if my existing pull backs (for sale if you need a pair) have holes drilled for the lever mount locating pins, the pins may have been ground off the switchgear. Once I start on the chassis I can have fun making holes for and pulling through the cables, at the moment they live outside the handlebars, which looks messy.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 03:19:22 PM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Dual Sport'
1971 Honda CB750 K1 'General Export Type' (from South Africa)
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster

Offline Jamesh_sussex

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Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #141 on: March 21, 2018, 04:18:28 PM »
I’ve got them on my watch list, but considering the cost plus postage from Oz, I’m going to give my originals a go at restoration, once I’ve finished the engine. I’ve bought satin black and the nearest red I could get from the car spares shop.

Once I’ve used heat to get the badges off, it’s all down to what happens with the polishing wheel- is the finish just on the surface or will it polish up shiny?
1969 Honda CL450 'Dual Sport'
1971 Honda CB750 K1 'General Export Type' (from South Africa)
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster

Offline Jamesh_sussex

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #142 on: March 21, 2018, 07:41:38 PM »
Haven’t tried refurbishing one yet - may be worth polishing the reverse side first (the glue side) to see how the material takes to polishing?

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #143 on: April 19, 2018, 09:40:37 AM »
I don't know why the photos are now taking an age to load, probably using a free service from postimage in a post photobucket world. Something has changed from .org to .cc, if you need anything reposted let me know. But lets not get cross about photobucket again....

I got close to finishing the engine, but at the moment it has no transmission. I removed the clutch and the alloy bodied pump, I'm damned if I can find the 'gudgeon pin' from the original pump though. It has to be in the gargage somewhere, but not where I can find it, its probably got dropped and rolled off under something, I'll find it one day, in the meantime I've ordered a new one.

Its time to have a go at the chassis, as I want to send the tank, panels, ears and headlamp off to Menno for some candy magic.



I bought a couple of K70s from Vintage Tyres, only when about to fit one last night did I check to find they hadn't included the new rim tapes and tubes, and I don't trust ancient rubber for a moment with anything important. To be fair I  emailed them at 7pm, 7am this morning I got an apology and a message to say tubes and tapes are on their way.   

I got the front tyre off only after a physical battle. It turns out to be from 1990, a US ribbed Dunlop, and after getting comfy for nearly 30 years did not want to be evicted, It's off now though. It shows that bike was on the road much later than I expected because of the apparent low mileage on the engine, it was already 20 years old when that tyre went on. Maybe it got an engine issue fixed and ressurected for a while, as someone had been in there. I've wondered if that camchain idler wheel spindle that wasn't located with its knockpin made a row as it moved aound, there was a witness mark at both ends on the barrel skirts. It is quite possible that somene spent a bit of time and money on the bike, only to have it still make a horrid engine noise, and just gave up on it.

The rear tyre is a worn Japanese Dunlop, I haven't found a date yet, maybe its the original, I don't know.



Brake shoes were OEM Honda, lots of dust but in good nick, however I have ordered new Vesrah ones as I dont want linings going adrift.
1969 Honda CL450 'Dual Sport'
1971 Honda CB750 K1 'General Export Type' (from South Africa)
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #144 on: April 30, 2018, 11:20:31 AM »
This has been taking a back seat while the CB750 got sorted, but now I have to get on with it, so I can get the front end apart and the fork ears off to Menno, along with the headlamp tank and side panels.

As they are steel, I was able to warm the panels with a blowlamp to get the badges off, which I am going to try and refurbish. Once off, there was a glimpse of original 1969 candy blue. It may be handy for Menno, though the brief will be 'the same as James'' as far as the colour goes.



The motor came off the workbench, still on the stand its now wrapped in one of those charity bags that come through the door, and stored out of the way.



One side of the front wheel, a fork leg and the brake plate are like new, the other side had caught the sun badly and all the laquer had gone yellow and crusty. It all came off with P400 and elbow grease, the hub plate polished up lovely on the wheel - they used decent alloy for all the stick they get about 'monkey metal'. Those spokes are as I got them, the bike must have been kept somewhere very dry, no rust at all.

Here it is with a new K70 being fitted, with a new tube and tape as well, of course.



Every time I fit a tyre its like I've forgotten all the lessons I've ever learned before, if I did it all day I'd be good at it. I used to watch the Dunlop fitters in the Superbike paddock, they made it look like child's play, though the right gear works a lot better than my three knackered tyre levers and the 'borrowed' washing up liquid.

 
1969 Honda CL450 'Dual Sport'
1971 Honda CB750 K1 'General Export Type' (from South Africa)
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster

Offline Jamesh_sussex

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #145 on: April 30, 2018, 06:16:47 PM »
Dave - next time you should try the cable tie method for refitting tyres - works a treat and safe on the rims..

Was thinking of you today - finally found 30 mins to fit the CL450 NOS exhaust as the last heat-shield arrived a couple of weeks ago. There’s a tiny dink in the muffler at the back - hoping my PDR guy may be able to access from the upper tail pipe but at the end of the day it’s a used trail bike and by no means perfect.

Some pics to show you what yours is going to look like with Menno’s handy-work...
















Offline Green1

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #146 on: April 30, 2018, 07:37:10 PM »
What are you on about James? Cable tie  ???
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Offline Johnwebley

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #147 on: April 30, 2018, 07:45:28 PM »


  James ,that bike looks great,
 Is it my imagination,but the clocks look the wrong way around ,the tacho drive is on the right of the motor,but the clock on the left,

 are most Hondas speedo left,tacho right ???
lifelong motorcycle rider,and fan

Offline K2-K6

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #148 on: April 30, 2018, 08:06:06 PM »
What are you on about James? Cable tie  ???

How to mount motorcycle tire with zipties: http://youtu.be/S6WPzRRJLpA

Probably this above as a method.

Just a small point about using washing up liquid,  it contains salts for cleaning usually which isn't in commercial tire products and may promote corrosion on old chrome rims or bare alloy.  A ready alternative could be car shampoo.

Offline Jamesh_sussex

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Re: 1969 CL450 Restoration
« Reply #149 on: April 30, 2018, 08:31:53 PM »


  James ,that bike looks great,
 Is it my imagination,but the clocks look the wrong way around ,the tacho drive is on the right of the motor,but the clock on the left,

 are most Hondas speedo left,tacho right ???
Hi John - good spot. For some reason on the ‘68 CL they’re in that configuration- both of mine are the same and from reference/historical photos I’ve confirmed it’s correct.

Most later CB’s are the other way round..