Author Topic: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration  (Read 31472 times)

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #150 on: September 24, 2018, 03:56:10 PM »
Well here we are again, the CL450 hasn't been forgotten, but I've been busy.

Menno has painted the tank and panels, and is now straightening the headlamp ears. Here's the bodywork after the acid bath:



I had a go at the chainguard, that trendy metallic purple caused a reaction like a child's chemistry set, so the paint stripper is going to be needed.



Next some tyre fitting. I got a bad back for my troubles, but we now have a new set of K81's on board. The orginal Japanese Dunlop rear tyre was made of / with rayon, apparently!



The front rim and spokes are VGC, the rear spokes have lost their finish, and someone has scratched the rim, apparently fixing a puncture using a carving knife. However when I cleaned up the hub, I was greeted with this sight:



There are no new or restored parts here, just original 1969 finishes under a layer of dirt - confirmation that this bike saw very little service.

I had the frame upside down, to get the stand off and swap out the bent brake pedal for another one, so I gave it a cleanup and some paint.

1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #151 on: September 27, 2018, 11:33:54 AM »
The chainguard came up well after stripping it back to bare metal, speaking of which, my enthusiasm for the project has been 100% boosted by these pictures of wonderfulness taken in Menno's garden, which arrived this morning.





1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline JamesH

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #152 on: September 27, 2018, 05:15:03 PM »
Awesome!!!!

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #153 on: October 01, 2018, 12:08:18 PM »
Yesterday was a watershed moment for the project, as I ended the day with more parts attached to the frame rather than less for the first time.



I fitted the centre stand, a new spring and the brake lever, then the chainguard, with some hassle. Only this morning have I read what a bugger it is to fit with the swinging arm in its usual place, so I got off lightly by accident. I bolted up the shock lower mounts, there are no nuts (the mounts have threaded holes), but there should be, when I have an idea if what other bits I still need  I'll order them along with a new swinging arm grease nipple - the same knock in type as i fitted on the CB750, and just as bunged up. The shocks are the original Decarbon gas shocks - I guess I'll find out what damping is left in them when I get the rolling chassis together, if shot I'll have to replace them with modern pattern ones, unless they can be rebuilt by someone (deos anyone know?) They look the same as CB750 ones, if they measure the same I may get another set of TEC ones.



I turned the frame the right way up and tried to change the head bearings for taper rollers, so I could fit the yokes. The top race popped clean out after some heat and a few whacks, but unfortunately the lower race is stuck after not coming wanting to come out square, I'm going to look for a small cutting wheel I can put in my drill to cut a piece out, as I can't get my angle grinder in there. I managed to lump hammer my thumb, which turned blue, as did my language.

The fork leg lowers aren't polished yet but I spent a couple of hours grafting away with P800 wet and dry to get a nice finish. I had a dilemma with the left one - if you look at the third photo on page one, it was in almost pristine original finish, but with badly yellowed laquer. I was tempted to leave it be, but in the end I want a matching pair, the other leg had lost its finish to damp over the years and needed refurbishing.
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #154 on: October 01, 2018, 06:37:19 PM »
Progressing well Dave ... I went to see the one DS had one but by the time I got to his building with all of the used bikes in it, he had just sold it. Evidently he sold loads of bikes during the 50th CB750 anniversary event .
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 06:46:32 PM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #155 on: October 04, 2018, 10:52:25 AM »
Last night I polished the dirt off the rear mudguard, there was some surface rust at the front, behind the air cleaners, but the chrome was excellent where you can see it, no pits or scratches other than the patina (ie crash damage) at the tip, under where the number plate will go.

I haven't seen a used guard for sale on Ebay in as good condition, there's lots of rusty or dented mingers, and one thing that makes me glad I started with a complete bike is that when I couldn't find one of the special chrome mounting bolts, I persevered until I found it, as I knew it was definitely in the garage somewhere!



This is how I left things, all the indicator / rear light wires just plugged straight back in again, and tucked up under their clips on the mudguard. I also successfully polished the rear lamp lens with Autosol to remove fine scratches and a layer of crud. The pattern seat pan doesn't have a mount for the 'prop' to hold it open (although the rear 'hinge' just bolted straight on, and the front catch works fine), I need to sort that seat prop out, maybe using a cable tie and a couple of well placed holes. Edit - maybe plus lockwire, or maybe just lockwire may be wiser - I'm nervous about drilling though. I don't want to take the new seat apart, I'm sure the cover would never fit the same again, but then I don't want to set it on fire, either.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 01:20:42 PM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #156 on: October 08, 2018, 02:46:32 PM »
One of these things is not like the other.........

I fitted the new air cleaners into their boxes and fitted them to the frame, then I polished the fork lowers, and fitted the tubes into the lower yokes, after installing a taper roller bearing headstock kit. That's when I found out the replacement top yoke doesn't fit, it is only a smidgeon (1 or 2 mm) different in its spacings, but the new one definitely doesn't fit, while the original (with the broken speedo bracket) goes straight on - they clearly changed the geometry just a touch, so you have to use yokes in matched pairs.



The difference isn't obvious from above, but its in the spacing between the recess for the handlebar clamp and the hole for the fork nut. It's more noticable when you turn it over:



My original (left) is noticeably smaller when they are next to one another, look at the webbing around the centre boss, and again the gap between the bar mount hole and the fork hole - in this case there is a small web on the larger version that is virtually non existent with the smaller one. I think (based on my 1018XXX frame number and late 1969 build) that my bike started life as a K2, but somehow got bastardised into a K1/2 mish mash - so I don't know for sure that I need a K2 yoke, but I think so. CMS have a couple of new ones, but I won't bite based on just a part number, because they can be a bit precious about taking stuff back, especially if you want to argue the toss about whose fault it was that you got the wrong part in the first place.

Listings don't make these things clear, currently DK has a smaller yoke (but sadly no instrument mounts) listed as '69 on', and one of the larger ones which purports to fit 68-69, but not mine. This is possibly K1 only. Later (k3 on) they went to a 'full size' hole for the upper fork leg, rather than a taper into a smaller hole which the top bolt goes through.

I would have posted this in 'desperately seeking', but it appears to have disappeared with Steve's reorganisation. Any parts, leads or insight would be appreciated.
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline hairygit

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #157 on: October 08, 2018, 02:58:27 PM »
Desperately Seeking is still there, I just looked. I'm on a computer rather than a mobile or tablet, there are limitations with mobile devices I've found.
If it's got tits or wheels, it's hassle, if it's got both, RUN!!!

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #158 on: October 08, 2018, 03:15:15 PM »
Tha's strange, it wasn't there earlier, maybe Steve was trimming the flux capacitor. I'll post this in there in the off chance that anyone has a K2 yoke lying about.
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline JamesH

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #159 on: October 09, 2018, 04:38:56 PM »
Dave - that’s such a subtle (but annoying) change between the consecutive model years. I’ll keep my eyes peeled and If I spot anything will send a link. Have you tried calling DK and asking if they have or plan to break any K1’s?

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #160 on: October 09, 2018, 05:06:32 PM »
bummer ... I was hoping lugs be same on 250/350K0/1 Dave as they use very similar clocks but very different lugs.

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“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline K2-K6

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #161 on: October 09, 2018, 08:32:55 PM »
Changing that dimension,  the offset, will alter the steering feel if the rake/trail etc remain constant.

Further out would give move weight and resistance to moving from straight ahead compared to the smaller offset.

Could it be specific to CL kitted bikes compared to road orientated setup? In other words,  would the CL with lower gearing/less top speed,  have more agile geometry installed compared to other models.

If you can't find another,  is a bottom set available to match the intact one?


Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #162 on: October 10, 2018, 07:51:22 AM »
Have you tried Mark Gaskin at Govnors Bridge Dave? ... just that I bought a set of CL450 ' 69 coils off him at an autojumble a couple of months back... That guy has to be one of the fairest and decent blokes IMHO in the UK for used parts. The likes of DK out to take a lesson from his book ... price fairly and consistently and you will shift a lot of spares quickly.
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline JamesH

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #163 on: October 12, 2018, 07:27:07 PM »
Dave...as per Pm.

James












Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1969 CL450 US Barn Find Restoration
« Reply #164 on: October 15, 2018, 11:49:57 AM »
I didn't get much done this weekend, what with Marsden Jazz Festival and the PCGB's Peak District run on Sunday in the 911, but I did get the front end on...



What we have established so far regarding the forks is:

There seems to be a difference between CB and CL yokes, probably different geometry as suggested by K2-K6.

To add to the fun they changed the CL yokes at least twice, my parts book shows the numbers change at 1012469, which is prior to my K2 number. We have established that my bike is a K2 in K1 clothing for some reason, which suits me as it looks much better for it.

My (sold as) CB450 K1 top yoke doesn't fit. Possibly its wrong on two counts, then, CB, and K1!

Although I have a broken instrument mount, what I do currently have is a matching front end which all came off the same low mileage bike. If for example I fitted James' K1 yokes, I'd definitely have a matching pair, but mixing K1 with late K2 may not work - the forks would (probably - there seem to be different fork tops too)) fit perfectly but would the front axle or the mudguard still fit?

I think you'd have to have the parts in the same room to be sure, can someone suggest an accurate way to measure between hole centres?

You see my dilemma, however I'm not too fussed for now. My project end date is next November, the bike's 50th birthday, I want her back on the road by then, someone will break a late K2 before that date, I will be watching the web.



1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

 

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