Author Topic: Cam chain.. CB400f  (Read 2171 times)

Offline Integra99

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2018, 09:13:58 AM »

Also the rod is well and truly stuck for my cam chain adjuster. The Horseshoe is moving but releasing all the lock nuts has done nothing. I have tried to knock it down gentle from the blanking hole but its not shifted, the hole isnt blocked because I can push oil from the top through and out of the adjuster hole.  Bugger.. !

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2018, 10:43:31 AM »
Just looking back through this thread and read this part again
Quote...
I've had the camcover off last night.. the adjuster (sliders) are a little worn but minimal. When undoing the two (m6 / 10mm ) bolts the tensioner pops up, so when pushed down clearly the horseshoe tensioner is working as its pushing the opposing tensioner into the chain chain, but the chain is still a little slack. I fear my adjuster is stuck..

Are you sure the horseshoe is moving?. Could it be that when you push down on the top of the tensioner, it's not just the blade flexing which would mimic the horseshoe moving?. Also the opposing tensioner is just a guide blade and is totally independent.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 10:49:24 AM by Nurse Julie »
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Offline Integra99

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2018, 11:03:38 AM »

Thanks Julie... ah yes looking at the diagram of course its only the one side thats affected.  it looks to me that the horseshoe is actually not moving and I assume stuck in position and hence the rod is not moving.  Thats a nuisance!

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2018, 11:38:50 AM »
When I stripped my engine, I undid the 2 x 10 MM bolts and my tensioner did not pop up. I had to fiddle with the adjuster on the front of the engine and the blade then popped up. Mine was seized at the pivot point on the horseshoe. Even though mine was seized, I still had very minimal rattle from the cam chain prior to stripping the engine.
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Offline Integra99

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2018, 11:58:53 AM »
Yes when I undid the bolts my tensioner popped up.. and the rattle is very minimal the bike runs lovely. But this is a fault and needs sorting, however I may only do 1000 miles on this bike over the next 12 months so I'm tempted to put my new chain and run it... my concern is I think the slack chain is at the end of its adjustment and may have worn into the horseshoe stopping movement. therefore the tensioner is at it most tensioned point.. potentially not good for a new chain.! The only way of freeing the horseshoe is to knock the rod down from the blanking point and see if it frees it at all.. otherwise its head off and engine out again.. !

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2018, 12:02:27 PM »
Personally, I would do it now. You will never have total piece of mind if you don't do it now. Do it right....do it once.
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Offline Integra99

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2018, 12:20:13 PM »

My head says that too.. I have a good friend down at the weekend that builds engines for a living so he is taking a look, Frustratingly I had planned to fully rebuild my XS750 engine once the CB400 was on the road..as its needs a top end rebuild... too little money and time ha!

Offline Seabeowner

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2018, 01:49:46 PM »
Useful little video here showing the gubbings. Apparently says DSS replacement horseshoe has improved bearings alleviating one of the probs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnwL7ZYBtSA
Phil
1971  CB500K0  Candy Jade Green or Candy Gold
1973  CB500K1  Candy Ruby Red
1975  CB550F1   Shiny Orange
1978  CB550K     Excel Black

Offline Clem2112

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2018, 02:05:23 PM »
My original 1978 F2 developed the cam chain rattle after a few thousand miles and only getting regular oil and filter changes, albeit every 1000 miles. The tensionor rod or arm was probably partially locked by the time I attempted to adjust it and the warranty had expired.
After that it was tensioned whenever it began  to rattle , at idle , by gently applying pressure to the rod as recommended by the Honda mechanic ! .... and was the only non- invasive way to tension the blade. A slight tinkling/rattle when the engine was cold was deemed normal so long as it quitened once warmed up.
By 30,000 hard miles the head gasket started to leak slightly from the LHS, not harmful  (Honda mechanic said) but annoying. So the head came off for a new gasket and while it was apart the tensioner blade got replaced (about £10 even then),  the original had light but significant wear grooves. A few more thousand miles of hard use and the engine stayed quiet between the occasional "adjustments". So those DID chains are pretty tough.

Offline ttr400

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2018, 02:55:56 PM »
Integra99, PM re the front engine mounts yes i still make them.

Also the cam chain adjuster horseshoe,(i make these for DSS) will be starting a new batch next week for DSS (he is out of stock)

Kevin
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Offline andut

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2018, 03:11:48 PM »
Do the job once and pull the engine - maybe more work & cost than you intended to start with, but you won't free the horseshoe pivot off by knocking the adjuster rod down from the front of the crankcase.  It will also give you a chance to inspect the rest of the engine, replace oil seals, drive rubbers and both chains so that when you put the engine back in, you'll know it's good for a few 000's miles - you also have a step by step guide courtesy of Julie !

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2018, 04:22:20 PM »
Integra99, PM re the front engine mounts yes i still make them.

Also the cam chain adjuster horseshoe,(i make these for DSS) will be starting a new batch next week for DSS (he is out of stock)

Kevin
Your horseshoes Kevin, being made of alloy, do they wear out quicker than an OEM one?. I'm assuming they are made of alloy to be lighter in weight ?
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Offline ttr400

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2018, 05:48:44 PM »
Hi Julie,
The alloy it is made from is stronger than the cast/forged steel OEM part, the pivot point has brass/Bronze bushes pressed in to the alloy horseshoe which is mounted
to a EN8 steel bracket, the pivot pin is stainless or i sometimes use EN8 steel, it can also come apart if it needs to be serviced.

I designed this part many years ago, i did an update around 3 years ago. over the years i have manufactured and supplied over at least a 1000 of them, not had a failure to date.
It's also one of my favorite parts that i have done, nice to put on your desk and look at even if you don't fit it....:)

Hope this answers your question. Oh and your build thread is great. well done to you. looks like you are doing a great job.

Kevin

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Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2018, 05:55:46 PM »
Hi Julie,
The alloy it is made from is stronger than the cast/forged steel OEM part, the pivot point has brass/Bronze bushes pressed in to the alloy horseshoe which is mounted
to a EN8 steel bracket, the pivot pin is stainless or i sometimes use EN8 steel, it can also come apart if it needs to be serviced.

I designed this part many years ago, i did an update around 3 years ago. over the years i have manufactured and supplied over at least a 1000 of them, not had a failure to date.
It's also one of my favorite parts that i have done, nice to put on your desk and look at even if you don't fit it....:)

Hope this answers your question. Oh and your build thread is great. well done to you. looks like you are doing a great job.

Kevin
Thanks for the explanation Kevin. It certainly looks to be a better design than the original. I suppose parts that were manufactured 40 + years ago can undergo vast improvement from the engineering point of view, like you have proved with this horseshoe.
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Offline Laverda Dave

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Re: Cam chain.. CB400f
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2018, 10:05:24 PM »
I have one of your horseshoes fitted to my rebuilt 400/4 Kevin, great quality part and a nice example of professional machining. I'll be putting some miles on the finished bike in the spring.
1976 Honda 400/4
1977 Rickman Honda CR750
1999 Honda VFR 800FX
1955 750 Dresda Triton
1978 Moto Morini 350 Sport
1978 Honda CB400/4 'Rat' bike
1982 Laverda 120 Jota

 

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