Author Topic: CB400 Swing arm Collar  (Read 1202 times)

Offline Green1

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2018, 06:49:07 PM »
Needles are a stupid idea. I have just replaced the rear shock on my dads Triumph and all linkages were rusted and gummed up even after being greased often. I am just in the process of stripping the Guzzi and every shock linkage bolt was seized in and every needle bearing was solid rust. I am now waiting for a new socket to arrive so I can remove the swingarm bolt I don't expect to see anything salvageable.
As mentioned above they are the wrong type of bearing for that kind of application
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 06:51:52 PM by Green1 »
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Offline hairygit

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2018, 07:05:29 PM »
Needles are a stupid idea. I have just replaced the rear shock on my dads Triumph and all linkages were rusted and gummed up even after being greased often. I am just in the process of stripping the Guzzi and every shock linkage bolt was seized in and every needle bearing was solid rust. I am now waiting for a new socket to arrive so I can remove the swingarm bolt I don't expect to see anything salvageable.
As mentioned above they are the wrong type of bearing for that kind of application
  I love your posts of woe Mick, they make my day, and prove beyond any doubt shitalian bikes are CRAP!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
If it's got tits or wheels, it's hassle, if it's got both, RUN!!!

Offline Green1

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2018, 07:08:15 PM »
What about the Triumph and that hasn't been abused like the Guzzi.
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Offline hairygit

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2018, 07:39:15 PM »
There was a good reason why Honda killed off the Brit bike industry, quality, which even the modern Triumphs appear to lack!
If it's got tits or wheels, it's hassle, if it's got both, RUN!!!

Offline Green1

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2018, 07:44:55 PM »
I beg to differ the overall finish on my Hondas is crap but they work I will give you that.
The Hinckley Triumphs finish is brilliant even with almost 90k on the clock it cleans up nice and the plastics are still strong.
Current bikes
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Honda CB550k Candy Jade Green
Honda CG125
Aprilia Pegaso 650
Moto guzzi 1200 sport
Kawasaki EX650R (Mine until dave pays for it)
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Offline Clem2112

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2018, 07:54:06 PM »
My 63 year old Matchless appears to have either Oil-lite or ph-bronze bushes for the swing arm which show little wear despite the half baked way the assembly is sealed on these old bikes.
Even the engine uses a similar material for the main crankshaft bearing on the timing side and for the camshafts. Only the big end has a roller bearing setup.
Footnote....
After getting the powder coating done the frame parts for this oldie the finish looks even better than my much younger 400/4 did. I suspect the Plumstead paint was applied without the influence of the accountants.

Offline Clem2112

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2018, 08:09:14 PM »
Quality is a widely misunderstood and banded about word.
 If Hondas were built to last 5 years, say? , at low cost and selling at an affordable price, but deliver reliable service to the customer then the makers would consider the bike was of high quaility.
If they had anticipated that some of their bikes would last even longer then perhaps their products were too good. Over engineering in design and manufacture would be seen as waste in their eyes.

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2018, 08:35:00 PM »
I don't think needle rollers have any problem in that application,  it's keeping any bearing clean and lubricated that make it survive generally.

Two stroke little end bearing are usually needle/roller type and the only move in a similar angled range as a swing arm.

Also,  taper rollers area just another version of needles.  Fine in car wheel bearings and again invoice frame headstock with no rotational cycles,  just low back and forth angular movement.

Offline Green1

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2018, 09:00:39 PM »
I don't think Head stock bearings are under much pressure and don't take the same kind of punishment. They also have a chance to lube there self when turning the bars lock to lock when moving the bike around.
Little end bearings are lucky enough to get a constant supply of oil.
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Honda CB550k Candy Jade Green
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Moto guzzi 1200 sport
Kawasaki EX650R (Mine until dave pays for it)
Kawasaki ZXR400 J

Offline Rob62

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2018, 09:09:40 PM »
Steering head bearing are under plenty of load..... needles are great but like all roller/ball bearings they need to be kept clean.

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2018, 09:32:23 PM »
As they don't rotate like a wheel bearing in suspension linkages you can use something other than lithium wheel bearing/general purpose grease to keep them from deteriorating.  Something like the old type "Keenol " grease, used alot on marine applications as it has an oxidised zinc content which prevents corrosion due to salt environments. Those links on newer single shock links get bathed in it if used year round.

It'll probably solve your problems Mick with the items you've indicated.

The multi purpose greases that are generally used are formulated with rotational friction reduction in mind to avoid adding heat build up to the design running it.  If you take away that need you can use the Keenol type which is not suitable for constant / high speed rotation. It's good for headstock too.

Offline Green1

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2018, 09:52:49 PM »
I have repacked most of the bearings now  ::)
A few hours cleaning them out coming up I thinks. 
Current bikes
Honda CB750k1 Valley Green Metallic
Honda CB750k1 Candy Gold
Honda CB550k Candy Jade Green
Honda CG125
Aprilia Pegaso 650
Moto guzzi 1200 sport
Kawasaki EX650R (Mine until dave pays for it)
Kawasaki ZXR400 J

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2018, 10:17:18 PM »
The general grease is fine for making the bearing work so it'll not cause you a problem.
Its just the resistances to corrosion that is the most useful part of the Keenol type grease.

The things I run year round I smear it into any Allen bolt heads and cross headed screws to stop them corroding,  it seems almost completely unaffected by salt spray.

For the earlier poster,  I'd use Keenol in those needle roller swing arm conversion kit as well,  especially as it appears to have no seal.  This type of grease will effectively give you a water repellent seal anyway.

For the bronze bushes, I'd use cv type grease as it contains moly in a very gooey base.  It'll probably last the life of the bearing if packed out with it.

Offline Deano400

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2018, 10:20:52 PM »
Very interesting read everyone. You learn something new every day on here.

Offline Green1

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2018, 10:28:34 PM »
I shall leave it in there then. The keenol sounds like just the ticket for the Guzzi as every fixing seems to weld itself in even if removed often.
Current bikes
Honda CB750k1 Valley Green Metallic
Honda CB750k1 Candy Gold
Honda CB550k Candy Jade Green
Honda CG125
Aprilia Pegaso 650
Moto guzzi 1200 sport
Kawasaki EX650R (Mine until dave pays for it)
Kawasaki ZXR400 J

 

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