Author Topic: CB400 Swing arm Collar  (Read 1200 times)

Offline Deano400

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CB400 Swing arm Collar
« on: May 12, 2018, 02:15:37 PM »
Hi,

The swing arm collar seems 'loose' in the bushes. Not sure whether it's worn over the years.

Does anyone know the spec / tolerances for the collar?
 

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2018, 03:21:25 PM »
I haven't got a clue what the spec should be on the collar but I know that will wear more than the bushes.

Edit.....OD service limit 21.35mm on the swing arm pivot.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 03:27:02 PM by Nurse Julie »
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Offline Deano400

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2018, 03:36:53 PM »
Thanks Julie,

21.42 one side, 21.43 the other.

Offline Deano400

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2018, 03:41:23 PM »

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2018, 03:46:05 PM »
As with most people that change the bushes, I always go for the phosphor bronze bushes. I will pm you John.
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Offline hairygit

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2018, 03:48:22 PM »
I have used the bronze ones for several years, and fitted many sets to bikes. Good quality, just make sure to soak them in oil for 24hrs before fitting them, the bronze being porous soaks up some oil, that way even if you are neglectful in routine servicing (Greasing them etc) they will last far longer than the plastic ones Honda fitted. Plus a pair of bronze ones are cheaper than one plastic one! ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Deano400

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2018, 03:52:53 PM »
Thanks Julie / Hairy,

I was looking at getting bronze off Frank, but he's just messaged me saying he hasn't got any. I do have some plastic ones and was wondering if it was worth fitting them as they are more likely to wear rather than the pivot which are few and far between.

Offline GregShiv

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2018, 07:17:13 PM »
Have you thought of fitting one of the needle bearing swing arm kit's from Honda4 NL?

https://honda4shop.nl/product_info.php?cPath=36_154_441&products_id=136

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Offline eem46

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2018, 10:53:18 AM »
Hi,
Has anyone mounted the needle bearing version? It has no seals at all, and the two side bearings cant be greased that easy. Kind regards, Emiel

Offline Orcade-Ian

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2018, 11:14:37 AM »
Not sure why anyone would want to fit needle rollers, they are only suitable for complete rotational applications, not the small angular movement on a swing arm.  Look at the damage inflicted on later Mini radius arms when some bean counter thought that needle rollers were better.  Phos bronze every time for me.  BTW phos bronze is not porous, only sintered ‘Oilite bronze’ is and that’s the material which should be soaked in oil overnight before fitting.  Also Oilite bronze should never be reamed to size as it blocks the minute oil holes which give it it’s lubing properties.

Ian

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2018, 01:21:10 PM »
Not sure why anyone would want to fit needle rollers, they are only suitable for complete rotational applications, not the small angular movement on a swing arm.  Look at the damage inflicted on later Mini radius arms when some bean counter thought that needle rollers were better.  Phos bronze every time for me.  BTW phos bronze is not porous, only sintered ‘Oilite bronze’ is and that’s the material which should be soaked in oil overnight before fitting.  Also Oilite bronze should never be reamed to size as it blocks the minute oil holes which give it it’s lubing properties.

Ian

I'm definitely no metallurgist but I thought SAE 660 Bronze was Phosphor bronze......I could be totally wrong though.
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Offline Orcade-Ian

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2018, 03:42:03 PM »
No Julie you are dead right, that is a phosphor bronze but no amount of immersion in oil will make it porous.  That’s why I made the distinction between it and Oilite bronze which is designed to hold oil.  Oilite is made by sintering which a process whereby the material is ground and powdered into the right consistency and then forced into a mould under extreme temperature and pressure.  It’s the same way they make tungsten carbide tips for tools. I think Oilite was invented by Chrysler.

Phosphor bronze will be fine for those bushes though.

Ian

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2018, 04:59:31 PM »
No Julie you are dead right, that is a phosphor bronze but no amount of immersion in oil will make it porous.  That’s why I made the distinction between it and Oilite bronze which is designed to hold oil.  Oilite is made by sintering which a process whereby the material is ground and powdered into the right consistency and then forced into a mould under extreme temperature and pressure.  It’s the same way they make tungsten carbide tips for tools. I think Oilite was invented by Chrysler.

Phosphor bronze will be fine for those bushes though.

Ian
Interesting stuff Ian and way over my head but I have been doing some reading on it and as long as the bushes are 841 Oilite Bronze or SAE660 bearing bronze, it doesn't seem to make any odds either way to the performance of the bush. The Oilite does not need lubricating as often, as they are self lubricating, so if you are a bit lapse on your swing arm maintenance, you will not do as much damage as if you don't maintain the swing arm with the SAE660 bushes.......
I learnt something new today that has absolutely no benefit to the quiche I'm making !!!🙂🙂🙂
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Offline Orcade-Ian

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2018, 05:19:23 PM »
Never did like Quiche, ever since they stopped calling it bacon and egg pie 🤓

Either of those bronzes but please no needle rollers,
Ian

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: CB400 Swing arm Collar
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2018, 06:29:06 PM »
Never did like Quiche, ever since they stopped calling it bacon and egg pie 🤓

Either of those bronzes but please no needle rollers,
Ian
Bacon and egg pie, surely cheese and bacon flan 😁😁😁
I only ever fit or sell bronze bushes Ian.
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