Author Topic: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model  (Read 38193 times)

Offline mattsz

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New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« on: October 25, 2018, 01:08:44 AM »
The new bike just arrived!  Since I've only really got storage questions at this point, I'll start here...

I stumbled upon this bike three years ago; it was sporting 21.7K miles on the odometer and a pretty orange and white for-sale sign, so I stopped and took a bunch of photos.  Interestingly, at that time I didn't take any pics of the whole bike, just detail shots.  I called the seller about it then; turns out he was a friend who invited me to take it for a ride. It needed some tuning, but it ran pretty well. It had some condition issues. I wasn't really looking to buy a bike, and I didn't - but he's come calling now to trick me into taking it off his hands.

Here's those photos:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/KAHnNEBDir375PbSA

And here's a little youtube video of it running - it was a warm start - it took a few kicks and some throttle juggling to get it to catch, but it idled well once it did.  I think I was focusing on noises, not knowing what's normal...

https://youtu.be/Szxke8bD_dg

Today...

It was last registered on August 3, 2016, and was put in storage at some point after that riding season.  The guy who was storing it for the owner just dropped it off and filled me in - he said drained the fuel tank, but not the carbs.  It was stored in a garage, uncovered, so it's very dusty.  He kicked it over occasionally, and it easily kicks through now.  The battery is stone dead, and the electrolyte levels are uniformly down about an inch.  It's topped up with oil, but I don't know how old it is.  The guy says it was "running great" when it was put away.  The air cleaner looks brand new.  Some of the obvious rust spots in the photos aren't as apparent at the moment, but I doubt they've been cleaned up or painted.

I'm new to Honda fours, so:

Can I assess the carbs without removing them?  I thought I might remove them for a winter once-over, but the "storer" says they'll be difficult to remove, and even harder to reinstall as the the rubber mounts will probably be hardened and expensive to replace.  He thinks I should just try to run it, but two years is a long time with fuel in...

I removed the tank and brought it indoors - the inside looks good and rust-free around the opening, but I can't see down to the lower recesses.  There is a certain stale petrochemical odor within.  I worry that there may be condition issues low-down where I can't see.  Should I just leave it for the winter?  Oil the interior somehow, perhaps?

When we took it off the trailer, I grabbed the front brake at one point to steady the bike, and the wheel locked up.  We backed it into my garage with the non-spinning front wheel leaving a rubber trail behind it.  A few more solid brake lever cycles allowed the wheel to free up some; the wheel turns, but the caliper is still sticking hard.  I can't imagine it's trustworthy without attention - worth removing for a winter overhaul?

I think that silencer crack didn't extend all the way around, and I don't think it leaked three years ago - but it looks like it encircles the whole thing now and I think it might have some black soot around it...

Might I salvage the battery, at least for testing purposes, by topping it up with distilled water and giving it a charge?

I don't have room in my unheated garage to store it; my next-door neighbor will keep this winter in his "basement"; I haven't found out whether it's heated or not, his whole bottom level seems to be a big garage.  But he says he has room along side three other bikes...

I found the original owners manual under the seat - I haven't seen any like it on the internet.  Maybe I'll duplicate it over the winter and make it available...

Any thoughts or input would be welcome...

Offline mattsz

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Re: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2018, 01:10:04 AM »
By the way - the passenger foot pegs on the swinging arm are a hilarious feature!  Why on earth...?

Offline Bryanj

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Re: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2018, 08:06:07 AM »
It is unlikely you will save the battery but if you have a trickle charger(not a standard car one) you might as well try.
The front brake will deffinnately need overhaul. Undo the two bolts that hold the caliper together then put the big half in a bucket and use the master to pump the piston all the way out. Also remove the swinging bracket from the forks then come back for more advice.

Offline Nurse Julie

  • 1977 CB550/4 Mongrel Brat. 1974 UK 500/4 K1. Honda CD250u.
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Re: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2018, 08:44:33 AM »
Strange spec bike as for a 1977 it is the correct colour, Candy Antares Red but the rear foot pegs position being on the swing arm makes it the earlier model. Great collection of photos.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 08:47:56 AM by Nurse Julie »
LINK TO MY EBAY PAGE. As many of you know already, I give 10% discount and do post at cost to forum members if you PM me direct.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/julies9731/m.html?item=165142672569&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

LINK TO MY CB400/4 ENGINE STRIP / ASSESSMENT AND REBUILD...NOW COMPLETE
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14049.msg112691/topicseen.html#new

Offline hairygit

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Re: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2018, 09:16:44 AM »
Strange spec bike as for a 1977 it is the correct colour, Candy Antares Red but the rear foot pegs position being on the swing arm makes it the earlier model. Great collection of photos.
We had this discussion a while ago nursey, for some reason many of the U.S. F2's still had footrests on the swingarm.

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If it's got tits or wheels, it's hassle, if it's got both, RUN!!!

Offline Nurse Julie

  • 1977 CB550/4 Mongrel Brat. 1974 UK 500/4 K1. Honda CD250u.
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Re: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2018, 09:35:59 AM »
Strange spec bike as for a 1977 it is the correct colour, Candy Antares Red but the rear foot pegs position being on the swing arm makes it the earlier model. Great collection of photos.
We had this discussion a while ago nursey, for some reason many of the U.S. F2's still had footrests on the swingarm.

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I missed that discussion Mr Hairy 😀😀😀 Good to know though.
LINK TO MY EBAY PAGE. As many of you know already, I give 10% discount and do post at cost to forum members if you PM me direct.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/julies9731/m.html?item=165142672569&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

LINK TO MY CB400/4 ENGINE STRIP / ASSESSMENT AND REBUILD...NOW COMPLETE
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14049.msg112691/topicseen.html#new

Offline Sprocket

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Re: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2018, 11:31:13 AM »
IMHO take the carbs off before running it, and clean them out individually. Rusty gunge will form inside and even if you can get the bike running you risk sucking the gunge into the engine and potentially damaging it or at least making it wear more. If the carb rubbers are hard, warm them up with a hairdrier for a few minutes before taking them off.
Interesting about the Antares red / early swingarm. Not seen that configuration before. Would be good to get some shots of the whole bike too, I can only see closeup shots.
Looks in very good condition though, lovely job :)

Offline mattsz

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Re: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2018, 11:31:58 AM »
We had this discussion a while ago nursey, for some reason many of the U.S. F2's still had footrests on the swingarm.
I missed that discussion Mr Hairy 😀😀😀 Good to know though.

Actually, Nurse Julie, you did put in a brief appearance during one of the footrest discussions - but it was almost four years ago, and since I myself have trouble remembering if I put on my underwear this morning, I won't hold it against you if you don't recall the discussion.

I am curious to know, however, why the swingarm footrest setup was "fixed" in your market, but continued in ours...
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 11:33:57 AM by mattsz »

Offline mattsz

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Re: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2018, 11:48:45 AM »
Thanks for the battery and carb suggestions, guys!

I have a regular "automobile" charger/starter booster, and a low power (0.75A) battery "maintainer" - I'm told that the little one won't charge a dead battery, but as long as nothing will get damaged (charger or battery), I guess it can't hurt to plug it in after topping up the cells.

I can't think why I didn't take any "whole bike" photos back then, I guess I was only interested in detail shots showing condition.  I'll try to take a few today, but it's kind of stuffed into the corner at the moment.  Anyway, it looks a lot like all the other ones...  ;)

Is it difficult to remove the carb bowls in situ for a cursory investigation?  If I do remove and examine/clean the carbs, it definitely won't run until next spring.  I'd like to change the oil either way, I suppose I can try to warm up the sump before I drain it?  Any harm in connecting the big battery charger/starter booster instead of a battery to crank it over in an attempt to circulate some new oil?

Offline TrickyMicky

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Re: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2018, 01:24:09 PM »
Hi Matt, Welcome to the "Grazed Knuckles" brigade. Regarding the carbs and tank, I left my bike standing for approx. 11 years, inside of tank was perfectly ok, fuel had 'gone off', just cleaned tap and replaced fuel line from tank to carbs. The carbs, now that's a different ball game! Removing them is a bit of a pain, but nowhere near as bad as trying to remove the float bowls whilst still installed. Because I had not drained the float bowls either, every jet had to be replaced, and I then refitted carbs only to find fuel running from overflow tubes when first turned on! I had omitted to remove and clean the brass spindles that the floats pivot upon, all gunged up and stopping the floats from operating. Whilst carbs are removed, have a dig through all the auction sites as I managed to obtain a nice set of socket headed screws to secure the float bowls with, meaning that if needed, the bowls can be removed more easily in situ using a small Allen key. Not too sure about your driver's footrest position, and it's definitely got the wrong gear lever, it should have two rose joints and a Johnson Rod for adjustment. Obviously the battery on mine was knackered, so every few weeks I just used to spin the motor over by using a set of 'jump' leads hooked up to my car battery, stops all the seals from going too hard. If you go on the "Flickr" website and just type in 400/4 there are loads of pics, which if you zoom in on them you can see what I mean re. gear linkage/footrest, might be worth checking on the rear brake pedal as well, it should have a guard fitted to it to stop your foot rubbing on the clutch cover.
    Regards the front brake, as they say in the trade:- "They all do that mate", remove caliper, new piston & seal, clean up the pivot pin and coat it with copperslip anti-seize on re-assembly. Have fun. Regards, Mick.

Offline mattsz

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Re: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2018, 02:03:46 PM »
Thanks Mick!

I see what you mean about the brake pedal, but re. the footrests and shift lever... I'm a bit on information overload at the moment, but didn't I read somewhere that the USA spec for these bikes included higher bars, and footrests mounted further forward for a more upright rider position?  Could it be that what I have is original to the USA bikes?

Offline mattsz

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Re: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2018, 02:11:26 PM »
I wonder what's with the fuel tank filler cap cover?  Why do we need two?  It's ugly, and it has scuffed up the tank paint...


Offline hairygit

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Re: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2018, 02:32:30 PM »
The filler cover flap is due to your totally paranoid road safety people! It arrived on the 750's as well in 1975 on the 750F1 model, but they just made them like it for the whole world market, not just the U.S. then.
If it's got tits or wheels, it's hassle, if it's got both, RUN!!!

Offline mattsz

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Re: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2018, 02:39:54 PM »
The filler cover flap is due to your totally paranoid road safety people! It arrived on the 750's as well in 1975 on the 750F1 model, but they just made them like it for the whole world market, not just the U.S. then.

Not quite sure how it makes anything safer, though.  My '75 BMW, '00 Kawasaki and '11 Royal Enfield all had/have single covers...

Offline mattsz

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Re: New (to me!) '77 CB400F - US model
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2018, 02:47:01 PM »
So what IS the story with this front brake?  Is it a sliding caliper type that only slides when you slide it yourself?  I've never seen an adjustment system like this...

 

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