Author Topic: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall  (Read 38368 times)

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #165 on: July 13, 2020, 02:12:13 PM »
Some more pics Roy from Mick (kettle738 on here) This is sold now but when the pics were taken it was totally unmolested and had covered approximately 2.7k mile only.

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“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline royhall

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #166 on: July 13, 2020, 05:26:38 PM »
Thanks for the photos guys, that's a real help.
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline royhall

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #167 on: July 18, 2020, 05:25:28 PM »
I have been having a look at fitting the voltage regulator to the Bomber. Can anyone advise what the green wire from the regulator connects to. Thanks.


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« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 05:35:40 PM by royhall »
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline Bryanj

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #168 on: July 18, 2020, 06:40:45 PM »
If its standard Honda earth

Offline royhall

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #169 on: July 19, 2020, 07:57:33 AM »
I was thinking along the same lines Bryan. The regulator works by dumping excess current to ground so it must be connected to ground somewhere. Problem is, on the later model and US model that wire is red. Just needing it verified by someone who is absolutely certain what the wire connects to, and also that the other two wires connect to where I have drawn them.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 08:05:56 AM by royhall »
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #170 on: July 19, 2020, 06:24:37 PM »
Green wire goes to earth ( negative battery)
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline royhall

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #171 on: July 19, 2020, 06:53:14 PM »
Cheers Ash.
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline royhall

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #172 on: August 08, 2020, 08:48:37 AM »
Sorry there hasn't been too much action on this thread for a few weeks. I have been stuck for parts returning from chrome and painting etc, you know, the usual frustrating stuff. Almost all the plating is now back except for one exhaust header pipe and the headlamp rim both of which were down to my error. Half the painted parts are back. These are all the black bits (and there's a lot of them no wonder it's called a Black Bomber). The silver bits are still not done after they have had them for over 6 months. The guy does a good job at reasonable price, but 6 months for plain silver and black parts is too long. Remember there's no multicolour masking or decal work to be done, just straight paint, and he was still working through lockdown so no excuses there. Moan over.

I have been using the time to try to get some sub assemblies built up. The air filter modification (as mentioned earlier in this thread) to use the later filters has worked out well and required no more fasteners to hold in place. I just need to be careful when changing the filters elements as the link pipe is not held in place by anything but the filters. That said, how often are the filters going to be removed, probably never. And not a hint of Gaffer tape in sight.

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I attempted to remove the swingarm bushes before it was powder coated without success. They were hard in there and no way to get a purchase on the edge of them to drive them out. The powder coat guy gave me a great tip. He says he gets swingarms in with the bushes still in and not blanked off. He said they often fall out when the coating is baked. With that in mind I blanked off the bushes with steel plates and thread bar and sent them off to be coated. On return I found they were that loose I could pull them out with an angled pick. It appears that these sintered bushes shrink when heated, how weird. Anyway, job done. The new bushes went in okay with a good interference fit, and were pulled in using the old thread bar and washers routine.

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I fitted the swing arm using all new thrust washers and seals from the Pirate.

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The swingarm went back into the frame with ease and was bolted up with the re-plated bolt and nut. I gave it a good shot of lube from the grease gun until it showed at the joints. On checking the arm was free to move in the up and down axis with no side or twisting play.

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I should comment at this point about how rough some of the parts look. This is in no way the fault of painters or powder coaters etc, it is how these parts are. The whole bike is a bit agricultural and by no means as well made as we have come to expect on the later fours. I could have spent hours polishing everything to a flat surface before coating but that would not be authentic, and a complete boring waste of life. So they are staying as Honda intended. That said the alloy polishing guy decided not to follow instructions and went down the show pony route. Bit hard to ring a guy to complain he had done his job too well. More on that later.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2020, 09:00:27 AM by royhall »
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline royhall

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #173 on: August 08, 2020, 09:21:37 AM »
Talking about the "show pony" finish on the alloy. At no time has Honda's Black Bomber been sent out of the factory with a shine that you could shave in. Quite the opposite, like most of the bike it was in a "that will do" condition. So here's the dilemma in pictures.

This was the finish I was looking for on the wheels. You know the clean not over polished thing.

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Now with the brake plate fitted.

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I'm hoping that a good wipe over with ACF50 and the passing of a bit of time will dumb down the shine a bit so it blends in. The polishing guy could have saved himself a good few hours work there. But as I said before, how do you knock a guy for doing the job too well.

Talking of overdone bits, here's a picture of a few that got into the wrong box. They got chromed when they should be BZP. There's the fantastically polished and chromed figure 8 plate holding the shoes in, and the polished cams opening the shoes. They have to be an award winner at any show, I mean who else chromes the insides of the brakes. ;D

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Building up the handlebars next. After putting them in the vice so I can fit the electrics I realised they were bent on the left hand side. I knew the bike had been down on that side quite hard, probably what put the bike off the road in the first place. Time for a bit of force to see if they can be salvaged. The big pipe came out to assist with leverage.

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A good bit of pushing and pulling whilst being carful not to damage the chrome had them dead straight again. After fitting the polished and serviced electrics and lever mounts I fitted a new pair of genuine levers and grips. I think they came out really nice.

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The grips as usual didn't want to go on. I have in the past been wary of using lubricants to get grips on as they usually come loose again later and your forever pushing them back on. A little trick I learned for this is carb cleaner, a good spray on the steel parts has the rubber pushing straight on then a few minutes later the cleaner has evaporated and the grips go super tight. But make sure they go on right first time as you wont get them to move again.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2020, 09:43:05 AM by royhall »
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline royhall

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #174 on: August 08, 2020, 09:56:07 AM »
Just a few shots of where I'm up to that don't need much explanation.

The handlebars fitted to the top yokes and mounts.

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The new Hagon shocks and grab bar fitted with all new bolts.

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Front view with the bespoke made sticker (thanks Piki). The frame stamping was masked off before powder coating as it needs to be visible. I cant risk it being hidden as I don't have a current V5C only the old style V5 and there may be an inspection required at some point, who knows. I sprayed the headstock with three coats of clear to stop the number from rusting.

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Various other assemblies ready to go.

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So that's where I'm at now. Am hoping the silver paintwork returns next week so I can get the forks built up and fitted. I also need the rear mudguard fitted so I can find a space for the extra electrics ie the regulator and the control box for the electronic ignition.

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Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline MrDavo

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #175 on: August 08, 2020, 03:01:23 PM »
All looking immaculate, Roy,  but I know what you mean about overdoing it. Honda alloy never looked like BSA alloy, I’ve resorted to gently using wire wool or P1000 wet and dry to take the shine off things. I sprayed both wheels on the CL450 in situ with ACF50, and used the bike as my day to day runaround- it certainly doesn’t look like a show pony now, but I know it will all clean up lovely if I ever go to a show again.

We always used to say that early Jap bikes were welded at, rather than together. My CL frame is also dog rough in places, but to ‘restore’ it would be to ruin the originality.

My mate has a1970s Ducati 750S, when he finally found the right stickers for the front forks they stuck out like a sore thumb, so he set about them with wire wool. Now they look like they’ve been on forever.

The accidental chrome internals remind me of the saddos you see at car shows, with mirrors under the engine to show you how immaculate it is underneath where you can’t see.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2020, 03:04:38 PM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline royhall

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #176 on: August 09, 2020, 10:42:01 AM »
Thanks for the kind words Dave. I shall give the over-polished bits a good ACF50 dose before fitting to see if I can dumb it down a bit. I should have been starting the Z1 after this, regretting not buying it now. Hay Ho.

I have managed to move on to other small bits whilst waiting for the paintwork to arrive back. The front brake linkages were going to be the next problem. As you can see in the photo the linkages are rivetted together. The chroming clearly cannot be done like that so I decided to grind off the rivet ends and press them out. When I say press them out I mean a drift and large hammer and some welly.

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This then leaves the problem of how to reconnect the bits after chroming. Once I had the pieces back, I checked the hole sizes and they were just over 6mm but slightly worn oval. After a bit of searching I found a supply of 1/4" stainless Clevis pins available in different lengths.

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Once they arrived I drilled the remaining holes in the brake clevis fittings 6mm them ran a 1/4" reamer through to give a correct size hole and remove the ovality. The parts were then assembled with the stainless clevis pins.

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Before final assembly onto the brake disks (which is held up as I forgot to order new felt dust seals) I shall strip them again and assemble with thick CV grease. The next job will be to fit the new taper roller headstock bearings. I have got an AllBalls kit that comes with seals and a load of different thickness washers. Of course there's no instructions so I shall have to do a bit of figuring out. Unfortunately the lower bearing is a fairly tight fit on the yoke pin so I shall need to get this right first time as the only way to remove it afterwards would be to cut it off. This is a job I have been putting off for a while so I'm going to get it done today.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 11:01:03 AM by royhall »
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #177 on: August 09, 2020, 11:14:24 AM »
Nice work Roy.

I like them more original too,  rather than refinished to within an inch of percieved perfection.  Something very engaging about a bike close to as it was delivered from production at it's time of manufacture.

Offline royhall

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #178 on: August 22, 2020, 09:40:49 AM »
Whilst still waiting for the remainder of the painted bits to return I have got as many of the sub assemblies done as I have parts for.

The brakes were assembled with new shoes and springs. I didn't need to touch the drums as they were in perfect condition, probably the only bits on the bike that were. (Who's ugly mug is that in the mirror polished alloy)

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The taper roller steering head bearings were a bit of a mystery. They are the AllBalls version and came with four different packing washers and no instructions. It took a fair bit of measuring and head scratching to get it right. It had to be right first time as the lower bearing is a tight fit on the stem and would be almost impossible to remove again without damaging it. If it ever needed changing in the future (highly unlikely with the miles it will do) I would cut it off with the Dremmel.

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Measuring the headlamp ears and fork shrouds it looks like the calculations were correct. When fully tightened the yokes should compress the rubber mounts enough to hold everything firmly in place.

The good news is that the last of the painted parts are finally ready. Only took him seven months. At least now there should be some significant progress.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2020, 10:08:15 AM by royhall »
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline royhall

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Re: 1967 CB450K0 Black Bomber Rebuild - By Royhall
« Reply #179 on: August 23, 2020, 10:24:41 AM »
I have finally collected the rest of the paintwork, only things still outstanding now are one exhaust header and the headlamp rim which are both at the chromers.

The first job is to get the forks built up and the front end on. On the old Honda's the fork seal fits into the chrome carrier and held in place with a spring clip. The first seal was a little bit tight but went in okay, the second seal went halfway in and decided to go super tight. As I couldn't get it out again I decided to drive it home, that went badly resulting in a Dremmel removal. Fortunately I just happened to have another seal, no idea where it came from must have been the Angels. After a quick spin inside the carrier with a rotary wire brush the second seal fitted just fine. And I didn't forget to fit a new O-ring seal that is one of the many things in the parts book that are missing.

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The forks were a simple rebuild in, as Haynes would say, the reverse order of dismantling. The hard chromers have done a spot on job of re-plating and grinding the fork tubes and they are a good finish and bang on size. And cheaper the Philpots, they are called Dynasurf and they live in Sandbach Cheshire.

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It was mentioned on another thread recently about not being able to build up the bike due to lack of space. I can relate to that comment as I'm slowly building myself into a corner, would put some stuff in the rented lock up but that's also full of bikes. You can see the problem in the background of the photo's. Hard life eh.

The forks and associated parts almost fitted themselves they went on so easily, glad I spent time working out the packing for the head bearings as it is perfect. I was expecting fun and games from the front mudguard as it's a pattern part from Vietnam. I needn't have worried, except for having to drill out two holes that were done 6mm instead of 8mm it went on a treat. Maybe faith is restored a bit in pattern parts as I have had so much rubbish in the past it makes me nervous to order the stuff.

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At this point of the build it is nice that all the sub assemblies are ready built as the bike comes together quickly. The front wheel went straight in and fitted well, spins freely with no brake binding and the brake works with just a slight pull on the lever. I was going to fit the handlebars but the fork top bolt fouls on it's way out so as the fork oil hasn't arrived yet I shall hold off on that.

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Honda sure liked the big mudguards back in the 60's, they look huge compared to the later bikes. As the bike is still on the beer crate I am not going ti fit anything else to the front end as it's getting a bit front heavy. At some point I need to enlist some help to move the crate to the swingarm so I can fit the centre stand. This is the system I have used many time before and it works well.

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The next job to tackle will be the wiring. I need to fit the new seat to see how much clearance there is underneath as I need to find a safe home for the extra voltage regulator and the control box for the Pamco electronic ignition. I have been summoned to attend a farmers market this afternoon so that will be a job for tomorrow.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2020, 10:28:50 AM by royhall »
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

 

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