Author Topic: Winterfield's first project (400/4)  (Read 5062 times)

Offline Bryanj

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4) - fixed pics
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2019, 09:48:06 PM »
No mate its frizzy haired geek!!

Offline Winterfield

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4) - fixed pics
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2019, 10:06:10 PM »
I decided that the dressing table I was using as a workbench was inadequate (because it was). So I built myself a workbench, and tried some fancier joinery than I had before.







Not too long after completion I managed to drop most of a sump of old motor oil all over the top of this bench. No problem! Just unscrewed the tabletop and flipped it over :)

It was joined by some shelving to store all the spare parts, and a parts washer to take the top layer of gunk off.

« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 10:13:09 PM by Winterfield »

Offline Winterfield

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4)
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2019, 10:26:59 PM »
So, back to the bike.

Work split into two parts at this stage: getting the engine in the bike started, and attempting to unseize the stuck pistons in the spare engine.

After messing with the electrics, continuity tests, checking and sanding the points, I noticed that when I manually actuated the points I would get spark.  This lead me to believe that the battery was shot and was not able to turn the starter and supply enough current to charge the coils.  Someone with more knowledge might be able to confirm/deny the truth of this.

With a new battery, and with no headlight attached, there was enough juice to get it started. At first it would rev very high, then die. I suspect I hadn't tightened the carbs to the airbox, or manifold properly. I eventually got it to idle and was happy that it was a running engine.

https://youtu.be/C5RQ_t6lYfQ


Offline Winterfield

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4)
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2019, 10:43:26 PM »
On to the spare engine. It had the head off, and had likely been sitting like that for some time. No info on why it was in that state, or why it had been taken out of the bike.

I wanted to see if I could get the pistons out, with the intention of stripping the engine down and rebuilding it to put back into the bike. It could have been totally minced inside, but I had a working engine so I didn't see I had much to lose.

First steps were to try and loosen the pistons by way of soaking them with penetrating oil.  I wasn't sure which to use, so I thought I'd experiment and tried motor oil, Halfords penetrating oil, WD40, and machine oil. One for each cylinder.



Left it for a week or so, and hoped to see the oil levels drop as it made its way down past the piston.  No noticeable change, and the crank would not turn. I didn't expect that would work, as this would of course require all of the pistons to be freed.

Someone recommended that I pour boiling motor oil (!) into the cylinders. The idea is that it heats the piston and sleeve, and while they're expanding/contracting at different rates, the oil makes it down past the pistons.  No dice here though. Also tried some heat on the sleeves from a butane torch.  I suspect that one of the issues with these approaches is the steel sleeves and the aluminium pistons just disperse the heat through the cylinder fins.

Offline Winterfield

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4)
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2019, 10:58:07 PM »
I read that it is possible to get the barrels off if you split the cases, and then unbolt the big ends of the connecting rods.  So onto the bench it goes.  This is when I should have checked that the sump was emptied before the engine was removed from the bike. It wasn't.



Pictured here: the underside of the top half, with the connecting rod bolts showing. Note also the lovely new oiled bench top finish.  If it seems like I'm going on about that, it's because I am. It still stings a bit to have made such a rookie mistake - no doubt one of many.



After getting the barrels off, I was able to extract the pistons. I didn't get any pics of this, but the process involved a small cylinder sized block of wood to protect the piston and sleeves, and a hammer. Some somewhat gentle persuasion and I managed to get the pistons out.



Offline Winterfield

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4)
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2019, 11:51:32 PM »
Now that I've satisfied myself that the spare engine is somewhat salvageable, I moved back onto the frame.

I found that the method of having the bike go to sleep with an engine, and wake up without one worked quite well.




Now that the engine was out, everything came off the frame, and the engine was fogged, covered, and hopefully won't rust.

I started to mess with options for cleaning parts on the cheap - this one using my wire wheel on the bench grinder. Very efficient, but keep it well away from aluminium.







I suspect that if I put those bolts back into service they'll rust within the week. I am considering attempting some zinc plating myself, but I might just collect everything up and send it off.

Here are more parts ready for painting, currently all cleaned using the wire wheel.






Offline Winterfield

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4)
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2019, 11:59:34 PM »
My first goal is to get a rolling chassis going. So I figured I'd start ground up, and get the wheels done.  The rims and spokes were in bad condition, so I opted to get new spokes and rims.




Not likely to have any luck unscrewing those nipples, I opted for the quick and dirty route:



... Like a hot knife through butter.

I was also keen to keep cleaning parts myself, sans any blasting capabilities, so I invested in some more wheels for the bench grinder. Satin wheels and polishing mops and compounds.  These satin wheels are great, but don't last too long, particularly on hard edges.





This hub has only been cleaned up with a satin wheel.  I later polished with 3 polishing mops and made it shine.



Tappet covers are a great example of the cleaning process.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 12:01:25 AM by Winterfield »

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4)
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2019, 08:24:16 AM »
Looking good
LINK TO MY EBAY PAGE. As many of you know already, I give 10% discount and do post at cost to forum members if you PM me direct.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/julies9731/m.html?item=165142672569&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

LINK TO MY CB400/4 ENGINE STRIP / ASSESSMENT AND REBUILD...NOW COMPLETE
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14049.msg112691/topicseen.html#new

Offline Winterfield

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4)
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2019, 09:05:47 AM »
Thank you. Lots of work to go, but last night I finally opened my wallet and bought many parts. Am looking forward to Christmas arriving shortly.

Offline SumpMagnet

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4)
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2019, 10:50:33 AM »
a well oiled bench will be protected from damp and moisture....and woodworm....for years to come. don;t think of it as an accident...think of it as an excellent dose of wood preserver...

And if you think that was bad...I once rebuilt a Kawasaki KH250 in a rented upstairs bedsit....and I did the same. Forgot the gearbox was full of oil and split the cases. After I moved the furniture....you could hardly tell the carpet was ruined. The parts were dry built up there too....Final build weas outside, and it was all carted down. Getting it up the stairs was easier.....but it took a few days before the smell of 2 stroke finally went away......
CB750F2 - in pieces
CB900F Hornet - the daily transport

Offline PHILIP2908

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4)
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2019, 08:51:53 AM »
Hi,
Great rebuild story and look forward to each episode.
Looks as though you are lucky to have a good & dry garage to do your rebuild in. The only advice I can offer is to get some cheapo white emulsion from B&Q and throw it on the walls - with any available light now multiplied, the difference this makes is amazing.
Keep it up !!
Phil @ Cheltenham
1974 Honda XL250 K0 - Silver - owned for 32 years. Not running at the moment
1972 Honda CB750 K2 - Now candy apple red - Ex USA, a DK special - needs a lot more work than I thought - very quickly becoming a DS special...

Offline Winterfield

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4)
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2019, 07:19:13 PM »
So, Christmas arrived (way back in May). Tyres, rims, stanchions, handlebars and some other little bits.



So the wheel building begins. After reading up on various websites, I decided that it would be a good idea to build my own wheels. It went OK. I got the lacing wrong the first time around - I think the method I ended up using was to put in all the spokes for one direction, then spun the hub to tighten the spokes so only the threads are showing through the hub. Then it was simple to see where the other side's spokes go from the hub to the rim.

First attempt: I tried lacing opposing spokes. This ended up with some spokes poking out way too far.


Second attempt went much better:


Same with the rear wheels, with new hub (with thanks to Davelu88) all polished up.






Tightened up the spokes and trued it with a cheap trueing stand. Plenty of other folks more qualified than me to explain the best way to do this - there are lots of good resources online.



And finally, with the tyres fitted (by a local tyre fitter):


« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 07:23:37 PM by Winterfield »

Offline Moorey

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4)
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2019, 07:52:38 PM »
Nice to see someone building their own wheels.  :)

Offline Winterfield

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4)
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2019, 09:05:35 PM »
Time will tell whether it was a good idea or not. I'm quite concerned about whether I tightened the spokes up enough/too much. I opted not to use a spoke torque wrench when building them, partly because of the expense of buying one. But also because many of the wheel building sites I was reading said that doing it by sound and feel was accurate enough.

Offline Winterfield

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Re: Winterfield's first project (400/4)
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2019, 09:15:25 PM »
Next up was the frame. I opted to have this professionally done here in Edinburgh. They blasted it, and painted it gloss black.

Before:



After:


The only thing that really irked me about the job they did was that there is some grit from the blasting which wasn't cleaned out of the frame properly. This ended up under the paint. He said that they'd found this once after priming, stripped it back, cleaned it out again, then it happened again. At which point they presumably gave up and painted over it.



 

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