Author Topic: tank liners  (Read 4597 times)

Offline deltarider

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2019, 08:49:38 AM »
Thanks Menno. Just the other day my neighbour asked me if I could help derusting his Puch 50cc Moped (1964) tank. Maybe you can give some advice on de-rusting. I once threw a handful of balancer leads in the empty tank and shook it for a couple of minutes, hoping the lead would remove the rust and maybe even coat the surface with some soft lead in the process. I rinsed the tank with diesel. Is what we Dutch call petroleum better? Make sure you wash your hands afterwards!
As for modern fuels, I'm not so hysterical as some are on the international SOHC site. To some extent ethanol containing gasoline is even better as it binds water where conventional gas inevitably will have a puddle of water at the bottom of the tank. It's only when the ethanol containing fuel starts separating, there will be a (serious) problem. Its effect on elastomers is another story. I invite you to read the attached text (it's in German which will not be a problem for you, I guess). You may find it an interesting read. Years ago I have translated it in English and published it over the net.
Our motorcycle tanks are even more vulnerable to rusting, located as they are over a hot engine that inevitably cools down, accelerating the condensation. Being exposed to direct sunrays doesn't help either. There's no escaping this condensation and all our CB tanks (no exception) will suffer some degree of rusting. The article below was published in 2011. Feel free to comment if there have been new developments.

Online mickwinf

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2019, 09:15:37 AM »
so now i don't know what to do, i need to de-rust again but have done it previously and the rust came back almost immediately. I cant ride my bike as is as carbs keep blocking up. Will try the flowliner rust remover at weekend and see what happens.
Love the 500 and 550 have a 500 called Lazarus under restoration

Offline Moorey

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2019, 09:18:17 AM »
I often think old school repairs are often the easiest and the best depending on what the outcome you require. Many petrol tanks can be repaired very successfully on the bottom using a solder repair and will not cause any distortion or damage to the original paintwork on the top of a tank. Even large areas full of pinholes can have thin copper patches soldered on. But they must be done correctly. No good trying with your average electric soldering iron, you need a big copper one able to carry enough heat to do it successfully.
This method often crops up on the welding forums as young welders just don't know how to do it.
Remember early petrol tanks were often riveted and then sealed with solder long before the brazing and welding of petrol tanks.

Offline Menno

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2019, 11:00:48 AM »
Well Mick, what did you do that made your tank started rusting immediatly again?

Best trick is what Trigger said as well: as soon as you have emptied the tank rinse it with diesel.
The diesel will stick to the steel preventing rust.
After you emptied the tank completely the inside will have a thin layer of diesel preventing rust.
You can safely fill the tank up with gasoline and ride immediately.

Offline 3scs

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2019, 11:11:32 AM »
so now i don't know what to do, i need to de-rust again but have done it previously and the rust came back almost immediately. I cant ride my bike as is as carbs keep blocking up. Will try the flowliner rust remover at weekend and see what happens.
mick if you want to borrow the k3 tank while you get yours sorted it’s just sat in the garage

Offline K2-K6

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2019, 11:33:54 AM »
If you are using acid of any type to clean,  make a final rinse with bicarbonate of soda to neutralise the interior,  then oil/diesel of some type to protect.

Don't mix the two in any quantity,  just a mild wash out after the cleaner solution has been emptied completely.

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2019, 02:06:33 PM »
If you are using acid of any type to clean,  make a final rinse with bicarbonate of soda to neutralise the interior,  then oil/diesel of some type to protect.

Don't mix the two in any quantity,  just a mild wash out after the cleaner solution has been emptied completely.

I guess most tank sealer de-rust solutions will be orthophosphoric acid based which leave a phosphate coating on the steel. Hydrochloric etc. are a totally different matter ... surface will flash rust in no time.
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Online mickwinf

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2019, 04:54:50 PM »
the stuff i used before was an acid based rust remover which did say on the bottle that it prevented rust re-forming but it did not! This flowliner product comes in crystal form and claims to be bio degradable and doesn't mention any acid content. The tank is sound and does not leak at the moment so will try this new product and swill with diesel as Graham suggests then report back.
Love the 500 and 550 have a 500 called Lazarus under restoration

Offline jon stead

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2019, 07:28:52 PM »
I followed this method a few years ago and no issues afterwards. Relatively cheap and available products. Bit of a faff on, but as I say, no issues since doing it.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 08:50:13 PM by jon stead »
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Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2019, 08:34:05 PM »
the stuff i used before was an acid based rust remover which did say on the bottle that it prevented rust re-forming but it did not! This flowliner product comes in crystal form and claims to be bio degradable and doesn't mention any acid content. The tank is sound and does not leak at the moment so will try this new product and swill with diesel as Graham suggests then report back.

It's probably something like Deox-c by Bilt Hamber

https://www.bilthamber.com/deox-c
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2019, 08:36:05 PM »
I followed this method a few years ago and no issues afterwards. Relatively cheap and available products. Bit of a faff on, but as I say, no issues since doing it.

Files coming up as empty Jon  ... anyone else had any success?
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline jon stead

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2019, 08:51:38 PM »
I followed this method a few years ago and no issues afterwards. Relatively cheap and available products. Bit of a faff on, but as I say, no issues since doing it.

Files coming up as empty Jon  ... anyone else had any success?

Should be good now :-)
2015 Triumph Bonneville T100 Newchurch

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2019, 11:15:33 AM »
I followed this method a few years ago and no issues afterwards. Relatively cheap and available products. Bit of a faff on, but as I say, no issues since doing it.

Files coming up as empty Jon  ... anyone else had any success?

Should be good now :-)

Yes fine now Jon... interesting article and I like the Caustic soda/Hydrochloric and then phosphoric process ... seems very logical to me.  My own take on that method, which is extremely dangerous,  is to tip the caustic soda granules (1kg = £1 at the pound shops)   into the tank and then put a hose into the top so that you can pour in nearly boiling water at a safe distance and then stand back and watch the fun begin. That method totally stripped the old liner from my 500/4 tank because there was such extreme gassing and heat from the violent exotherm ..... BTW I am not recommending this method as it is extremely dodgy, contravenes every health and safely rule and is downright blo**dy dangerous.

I still also want to try hydrolysis with sodium carbonate (washing soda) solution as the electrolyte .... Anyone else tried that method?
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Online mickwinf

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2019, 04:51:05 PM »
so cleaned and degreased the tank today and have filled the tank with the flowliner de-rust solution, so will leave 24 hours and check
Love the 500 and 550 have a 500 called Lazarus under restoration

Offline mike the bike

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Re: tank liners
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2019, 05:46:41 PM »
So there I was.  Petrol tank with assorted M10 and M12 fasteners shaking the rust off.  Then twice as long to get the nuts and bolts out.  Then some acid descaler,  followed by a rinse out.  I'm thinking....Instead of poncing about with dubious tank lining goo that is unreliable, why not copper plate the inside of the tank.
All it would take is copper sulphate, some copper tubing and some volts from the battery.
Or am I over simplifying it?
Where's that 10mm socket got to?

 

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