Author Topic: Ongoing PD46 carburettor woes (possibly)  (Read 4519 times)

Offline deltarider

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 1371
  • My kingdom for a turkey!
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing PD46 carburettor woes (possibly)
« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2020, 08:11:28 AM »
... From a Honda manual...
What manual is that? It's probably a good method for a 2 cylinder engine. For a 4 cyl. I have my doubts...

Offline Bryanj

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 10804
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing PD46 carburettor woes (possibly)
« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2020, 08:43:28 AM »
Its in the 750 F2 manual that has PD carbs, not sure about the 550 K3 supplement

Online K2-K6

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 5285
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing PD46 carburettor woes (possibly)
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2020, 08:43:35 AM »
... From a Honda manual...
What manual is that? It's probably a good method for a 2 cylinder engine. For a 4 cyl. I have my doubts...

From a CB 750 "shop manual" dated September 1970 , also still in last CB750 K8 / F2 shop manual too. Both official Honda directions for their technical support. 

It's something that's effectively been extended into most fuel injection (both diesel and petrol) systems that evolved,  ie. The individual setting of each cylinder demand by calibration of it's slow speed circuit to equal the combustion effort across all pistons.  Mostly it's done on the fly currently by monitoring the pulse time of the individual power strokes via crank sensors,  and then altering fuelling parameters for the next firing of relevant cylinder to produce smooth idle speed.

The philosophy is the same just faster and more resolved.

In the last 750 sohc manual,  it describes this routine as one done at the factory and should remain as a datum point for running the engine. It accepts that the adjustment screws don't have to be an even blanket setting to achieve combustion parity.

Essentially it's saying you can't get an accurate enough setting from the tolerances within the idle circuit just by observing the physical screw position number of turns out from base. In deferring to engine rpm it gives you what you are chasing,  even tickover and best combustion parity at that speed from a true calibration routine.  :)

It really is the icing on the cake of smooth tickover,  which is not vacuum balancing.  That doesn't have the resolution to do what this routine does. Although it is a prerequisite of this one that the carb slides are previously set correctly.


Offline deltarider

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 1371
  • My kingdom for a turkey!
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing PD46 carburettor woes (possibly)
« Reply #63 on: July 06, 2020, 09:13:23 AM »
The method itself makes sense. I recommend an analogue tachometer that shows say 40 rpm increments.
Also realise that CB500/550s with old style Keihins need a relatively rich idle to facilitate a good driveability in the lower region, at least in my experience. The K3 is a different story.

Offline JezzaPeach

  • SOHC Expert
  • Posts: 385
  • CB500/4 K1 1972 gold
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing PD46 carburettor woes (possibly)
« Reply #64 on: July 06, 2020, 09:28:01 AM »
Bryanj yes I think some models have a gauze or something built into one of the jets.
1972 CB500/4 K1 Gold
Wanted: my 500/4 UGP96M
from 1975-78. Garnet Brown.

Offline deltarider

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 1371
  • My kingdom for a turkey!
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing PD46 carburettor woes (possibly)
« Reply #65 on: July 06, 2020, 10:02:52 AM »
Carefull with the wire thingies the pilot jets have a sort of cast in spider for some reason, maybe to atomise better?
Not being a native speaker, I don't know what you mean by a 'cast in spider'. Does this pic help?

Offline Bryanj

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 10804
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing PD46 carburettor woes (possibly)
« Reply #66 on: July 06, 2020, 10:46:15 AM »
Nope, cant expand it enough, if you look through a pressed in pilot the hole does not look "clear"  as there is sometning in the small hole and its supposed to be there

Offline deltarider

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 1371
  • My kingdom for a turkey!
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing PD46 carburettor woes (possibly)
« Reply #67 on: July 06, 2020, 08:22:57 PM »
Nope, cant expand it enough, if you look through a pressed in pilot the hole does not look "clear"  as there is sometning in the small hole and its supposed to be there
I think I know what you mean. I have the same experience, but in my case I'm sure it's caused by my own eyes, a trompe-l'oeil if you will pardon my French. To verify the slow jet is clear, you need a magnifying glass, then vary its distance to the jet a bit until you see a hole like in the pic below. I can only see it using a magnifying glass or... by taking a picture. When you see a perfect round hole, you can be sure the bore is clear.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 09:34:05 PM by deltarider »

Offline JezzaPeach

  • SOHC Expert
  • Posts: 385
  • CB500/4 K1 1972 gold
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing PD46 carburettor woes (possibly)
« Reply #68 on: July 06, 2020, 09:40:24 PM »
Using the stainless wires VERY carefully I found the smallest ones went through one or two of the (Cb500) pilot jets with ease, no sign of obstructions, but some had a chalky white oxide type build up, similar to that in the float bowls. The wires are slightly abrasive half way along and went through the unblocked ones ok, so I felt I could risk cleaning the blocked ones to a similar level. It now starts and runs well. 
Probably very close to 40# but likely old ones that have had any deposit will be slightly coarse and tend to attract more deposits. In hind sight with all the work involved new pilots would be tempting and the excellent forum members supply some good ones I think.
1972 CB500/4 K1 Gold
Wanted: my 500/4 UGP96M
from 1975-78. Garnet Brown.

Offline deltarider

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 1371
  • My kingdom for a turkey!
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing PD46 carburettor woes (possibly)
« Reply #69 on: July 06, 2020, 09:56:54 PM »
... some had a chalky white oxide type build up...
It's residue from water. Decades ago I found it in some of the little holes in the needle jet sides. I cleaned them... never noticed any difference. ???

 

SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal