Author Topic: Z1 as a project?  (Read 25979 times)

Offline MrDavo

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Z1 as a project?
« on: July 16, 2020, 06:06:49 PM »
I have hugely enjoyed doing the last couple of Honda restorations, and sharing it with you guys and gals, but am starting to think that at my age I may never do another bike from a barn find unless I get on with it. My classic car is a continuous rolling resto which will never finish, however although I can do most anything (apart from paint) with a bike, as a non welder without the gear and experience to do 911 engines and boxes I am stuck with paying others £££ to do stuff on my car properly.

As a last hurrah I'd like (but don't have to) to do a Z1. A mate of mine had a new one, and scared the pants off me when I went pillion on it, one of my contact lenses blew away at around 130mph on the M6, despite my wearing a Bell Star.  The down side is that apparently  a lot of other people would like one too, projects and finished bikes are almost (but not quite) sandcast money, good restos seem to start around the £20k mark. No way I'd pay that, which is why I want to restore one. Like with Hondas, there are so so restorations, and ones where the rims have the correct numbers stamped on etc...

Here's one that someone restored earlier, of course Frank has a bunch of them at £25k a pop, but then he would...

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1094172

The upside of the daft prices is I should always get back any money I sink into it, as I more or less did with my CB750 (the money went to get the 911's rusty bodywork restored properly). However, a Z1 project bike DK have with a fair bit missing and broken head fins keeps being relisted as not meeting the reserve despite getting north of 9K. Resto costs would be several thousand, like with Hondas a set of pipes is an arm and a leg when you can find them, for example.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1973-Kawasaki-Z1-900-Unregistered-US-Import-Barn-Find-Classic-Restoration-Projct/353135219569

By the way, I know they always say it, but how the feck did they get it running on easy start without an exhaust system?

I get the impression, looking at online ads, that there are semi/professional restorers that snap these up to restore as a career, competing for increasingly rare project bikes.

Has anyone here done one? Should you come across a little old lady who is sick of struggling to get her lawn mower past an old Z1 that has laid in her garage for years, let me know. James probably has a 1,000 mile one owner Z1 stashed away somewhere...



1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline Johnwebley

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2020, 06:26:24 PM »
I have been watching Allan Millyard do his two 6 cylinder builds.

Interesting differences between Z1 and the sohc motors.

Worth exploring YouTube for

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Offline kevski

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2020, 07:39:09 PM »
I am on my third Zed thou  brought back from the brink of breaking up, though mine have never gone to original spec and like most bikes on refurbishment they cost an arm and a leg, expect to pay top dollar whatever the condition, sadly no bargains to be had anymore.

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2020, 08:18:39 PM »
I think you want one 'cos they have a beefy roller bearing crank Dave .... after all the hassle you had with Honda plain bearing cranks.

It's bad enough getting hold of the Honda D.I.D. rims with the correct diamond logo and without the unsightly side scripting but the thought of having to search for correctly date coded Takasago rims would do my nut in  ;D

What's the score with pattern pipes on a Z1 .. I have heard of Doremi  but is there an equivalent of Yamiya No-number 750 HM300's?
I must admit that that is one gorgeous looking 4 into 4 on the Z1. It's such a shame that the Z650B1 didn't have a 4 into 4 . I had one of those and it was a really nice bike ... plain bearing crank though Dave so a big no-no.  ;D ;D
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Offline Andrew-S

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2020, 09:53:06 PM »
Dave,
Buying a project 72 or 73 Z1 is very likely to be a false economy as so many have been butchered over the years (even those will cost stupid money) and have incorrect interchangeable parts fitted from later models i.e Z1A, Z1B and even the Z900, sourcing Z1 OEM exhausts will cost you north of £5k if you can even find them -Doremi do a good replica 4x4 which fits all models and are unstamped (as per the original 72/73 Z1), the Z1A/B were factory stamped so easily recognisable as being (or not being) reproduction. I could go on about the differences between the models but time and space prevent.......maybe buy a copy of Dave Marsden's book, Original Z1: http://www.z-power.co.uk/the-original-z1-restorers-guide-by-dave-marsden - the rest of the Z-Power website provides very useful info on date codes and availability of OEM and reproduction parts etc.

Not a project, but if you want to see a very good 73 Z1 (and rare UK example) have a look at this thread - my mate Dave is open to sensible offers on his Z1: http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,22733.0.html

Cheers,
Andrew
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 10:00:13 PM by Andrew-S »
1972 UK XL250 K0 Motosport
1976 UK Z900 A4
2018 BMW R1200 GS

Offline MrDavo

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2020, 09:18:21 AM »
Blimey, and I thought CB750 pipes were expensive!

Your mates bike is blooming lovely, Andrew, but i want to restore a bike for the pleasure of doing it, and so I don’t have to spend £20k. However it looks like these days you need that sort of wedge to find the right bike and do it properly.

I’ll check out that forum, thanks.
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline Andrew-S

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2020, 09:26:48 AM »
Blimey, and I thought CB750 pipes were expensive!

Your mates bike is blooming lovely, Andrew, but i want to restore a bike for the pleasure of doing it, and so I don’t have to spend £20k. However it looks like these days you need that sort of wedge to find the right bike and do it properly.

I’ll check out that forum, thanks.

Yes Dave, 72/73 Z1 pipes are not cheap - I should clarify I was talking about NOS pipes.

Worth checking out the Z1 OC forum, might see you there too: http://z1ownersclub.co.uk/

Good luck with your hunt.


1972 UK XL250 K0 Motosport
1976 UK Z900 A4
2018 BMW R1200 GS

Offline Andrew-S

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2020, 02:26:57 PM »
My brother in law has a Z1000 with some OE Z1 pipes on it, he was saying the other day he's going to be selling it as his back won't let him ride it anymore. I may just end up buying it, it's not a Z1 but it's close enough I suppose.

He must have made up or bought the Doremi hanger brackets as the Z1000 as standard has a 4/2 set up.  Z1000 A1's are starting to fetch decent money as the prices for the Z1, Z1A, B and Z900 keep going up, particularly home market bikes. The A2 less so, but it will catch up when the time is right. That also goes for the Z650, particularly the B1 - like most models the first generation command the highest prices.

I'd grab the Z1000 if you have the chance.

The Z1000 is actually slower than the Z1 due emission controls but still a very nice and proper Zed, see the road test report below.



« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 02:31:49 PM by Andrew-S »
1972 UK XL250 K0 Motosport
1976 UK Z900 A4
2018 BMW R1200 GS

Offline Andrew-S

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2020, 03:02:17 PM »
Difference between the A1 and A2 Andrew? forgive my ignorance Kwacks never interested me enough to research them, I like some of them but only the Z1 had me tempted to go away from Honda.

MY BIL bike looks just like the one in the article, same colour as well, sort of an olive green. Not sure how it got the exhausts to hang, I've never had to work on it as my other BIL does all the work on it, same BIL who keeps nicking my tools  >:( >:(

The main noticable differences were: paint schemes, the A1 (77) was available in Diamond Wine Red or Diamond Sky Blue and the A2 (78) in Luminous Red or Green. Front calipers on the A2 moved to the rear of the fork legs. The A2 had lower handlebars.
1972 UK XL250 K0 Motosport
1976 UK Z900 A4
2018 BMW R1200 GS

Offline sprinta

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2020, 09:33:11 PM »
I think you want one 'cos they have a beefy roller bearing crank Dave .... after all the hassle you had with Honda plain bearing cranks.

It's bad enough getting hold of the Honda D.I.D. rims with the correct diamond logo and without the unsightly side scripting but the thought of having to search for correctly date coded Takasago rims would do my nut in  ;D

What's the score with pattern pipes on a Z1 .. I have heard of Doremi  but is there an equivalent of Yamiya No-number 750 HM300's?
I must admit that that is one gorgeous looking 4 into 4 on the Z1. It's such a shame that the Z650B1 didn't have a 4 into 4 . I had one of those and it was a really nice bike ... plain bearing crank though Dave so a big no-no.  ;D ;D

Something to take onboard with the Doremi pipes is that they are not double skinned like the original downpipes were and as a result will tend to discolor.

Don't understand why they do not double skin them as the aftermarket Honda ones done by DS/Yamiya are. 

I do not believe that Yamiya make a pipe set for the Kawasaki Z1 four pipers.

Fortunately I still have good original date stamped set on my Z900A4.

The Doremi set will generally set you back around £1200.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 09:49:02 PM by sprinta »

Offline sprinta

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2020, 09:57:56 PM »
Difference between the A1 and A2 Andrew? forgive my ignorance Kwacks never interested me enough to research them, I like some of them but only the Z1 had me tempted to go away from Honda.

MY BIL bike looks just like the one in the article, same colour as well, sort of an olive green. Not sure how it got the exhausts to hang, I've never had to work on it as my other BIL does all the work on it, same BIL who keeps nicking my tools  >:( >:(

The main noticable differences were: paint schemes, the A1 (77) was available in Diamond Wine Red or Diamond Sky Blue and the A2 (78) in Luminous Red or Green. Front calipers on the A2 moved to the rear of the fork legs. The A2 had lower handlebars.

My Z1000A1 bought new in 77. Bought it from Paddock Wood in Kent which was run by Paul Smart at the time.

I traded in my CB750K2 for it.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 09:21:15 AM by sprinta »

Offline Andrew-S

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2020, 08:22:10 AM »
Just asked him Andrew and it's a A1. Any idea of value? it's in really good condition but he's fitted what appear to be genuine 4 into 4 exhausts.

Difficult to say without seeing photos or the bike, but it all depends on condition, history, originality and whether a UK or import - currently, I would say a very good clean A1 with all the right bits would fetch somewhere between £6k - £8k privately, more if in really top form or from a dealer and even more from Frank. Other opinions may vary.......

The Z1 the exhaust is unstamped, but so are Doremi and Delkevic, although there are ways to tell if it's an original set. An original Z1A or Z1B set would be stamped KHI 900 Z1/750 Z2 DGM xxx, if an original Z900 set (more ilkley) then the stamping would end 76. Good condition original exhausts are worth decent money, so it might be worth refitting a 4/2 and getting some money back on the 4/4 system.

Cheers, Andrew
1972 UK XL250 K0 Motosport
1976 UK Z900 A4
2018 BMW R1200 GS

Offline Andrew-S

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2020, 08:33:56 AM »
Has anyone here done one? Should you come across a little old lady who is sick of struggling to get her lawn mower past an old Z1 that has laid in her garage for years, let me know. James probably has a 1,000 mile one owner Z1 stashed away somewhere...

Dave,
Would you consider a Z900? The Z1 OC forum is down at the moment, but there is UK one for sale in need of a full restoration which was posted yesterday.

Cheers, Andrew
1972 UK XL250 K0 Motosport
1976 UK Z900 A4
2018 BMW R1200 GS

Offline sprinta

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2020, 08:09:34 PM »
Just spoken to the BIL Andrew and I was wrong, he's got a 4 into 2 on it, my mistake.

It's also an import (didn't know that) as was earmarked for the US police just before they switched over to Harleys so it didn't get converted.

He does however need a right hand front caliper if you know anyone who has one, for some reason his only has one front disc and he has all the parts needed except the caliper. Kinda rare beast as I've found.

The US bikes only had one disc. The UK bikes had the twin discs as std.

Try twowheelspares for a caliper, they have several at various prices:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kawasaki-Z650-B1-Z900-A4-Z750-B1-Twin-Rare-Front-Brake-Braking-Caliper-/312888608359?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

Same caliper is used on both sides. I believe the brk is the same for both sides, just lift the caliper off and turn it around.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 08:16:00 PM by sprinta »

Offline sprinta

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2020, 09:25:14 AM »
Damn he said he'd found a left hand one cheap but passed on it cause he thought they were handed, TBH so did I as they have different part numbers.

To test that theory before buying I'll ask him to take off the left hand caliper and try a test fit onto the right leg.

Thanks for the info.

You may be right about the caliper brk being handed, worth trying. However, the caliper body is used on both sides, Part No: 43042-008.

Looking at the photos of when I did my A4 it does look as if the brk is handed as it has a machined face on one side where it attaches to the fork mount. It may be possible to modify a LH brk to fit on the RH side?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 09:49:02 AM by sprinta »

 

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