Author Topic: Z1 as a project?  (Read 26015 times)

Offline MrDavo

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2020, 10:08:56 AM »
I forgot to add, the hub has previously been used single disk, so the threads are perfect one side, bolloxed on the other side. I need to get those helicoiled, as not having the disc fall off is a bit of a health and safety issue.
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline royhall

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2020, 10:48:59 AM »
I think I would use something better than Helicoils on a safety item such as that. Last one I did my local engineering shop machined the threads out then made and fitted brass inserts that were then drilled and tapped. Or maybe use something like Wurth Timeserts that are expensive but way better than helicoils, something like these (example) https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/1158018297?iid=381057506601. There are other cheaper versions of these but for the life of me I cannot remember what they are called.
Current bikes:
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Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
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Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline MrDavo

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2020, 11:18:13 AM »
Timeserts seem the way to go, and it will be much easier while the hub is separate from the wheel.

Anyone know where I can get them done around Manchester, or by post?

However, I was just thinking this through, while I was making a brew. The force on a disc bolt is in shear, rather than tension, so if helicoiled it is extremely unlikely the bolts will ever pull out. Plus once tightened up they probably won’t be disturbed again for a long time. Thoughts?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 11:46:50 AM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline royhall

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2020, 12:01:29 PM »
On wheel centre I would agree, but the disk and caliper is offset to the side of the tyre contact patch so there is a degree of sideways force. Pulling up a 600lb bike in an emergency generates considerable force so I personally wouldn't risk Helicoils when a much better solution is available. Whilst it's apart you may as well do the best job possible. I wish I could remember the name of the cheaper Timesheets, will go online later and have a look. That said fitting Timesheets would only be viable if there's plenty of meat around the holes.
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline MrDavo

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2020, 12:07:50 PM »
My spellcheck wanted to call them timesheets too!

There’s plenty of meat anyway as the holes are drilled into the alloy hub.
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline royhall

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2020, 12:13:49 PM »
Phone's ehh, cause more spelling errors than I do. Makes you wonder how useless you need to be for predictive text to be of any use.
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline Bryanj

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2020, 02:32:48 PM »
Keenserts

Offline royhall

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2020, 02:59:35 PM »
They are the very fellows. Cheers Bryan that would have kept me awake.
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline Andrew-S

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2020, 04:28:39 PM »
Ok you win, I’ll do both forums. I hadn’t realised that the Projects section wasn’t available to all.
I can’t post photos from my phone, though, so I’ll do that Monday when I’m meant to be working.

Yesterday it was too hot to work, so I went outside and took the tyre off the front wheel. I’m getting the rim rechromed, so I attacked the spokes with the angle grinder, then degreased the hub and speedo drive (I’ve two of those, one was immaculate and seized, the other filthy, full of grease and working just fine), and repainted with Simonize Satin Black.

The back mudguard isn’t perfect, the chrome is a little worn, but very original with the plastic sleeves over the cable holders. I’ve decided to use it as is, so spent some time polishing. It’s the US short version, I don’t really like the long UK ones.

Today I’m going to try and get a handle on what I’ve not got. Fasteners are thin on the ground, I have loads of generic ones I took of the CB750 somewhere, with alphabet soup on the heads, but I didn’t use them for a reason.

Good to see you're doing a rebuild thread on here too, who knows it may even sway some towards a liking for Zeds?  ;D

The short rear mudguard is the correct one for your Z1A - the long rear is the UK spec and is a rare thing, as are the indicator ears on the grab rail.  ;)


« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 01:22:05 PM by Andrew-S »
1972 UK XL250 K0 Motosport
1976 UK Z900 A4
2018 BMW R1200 GS

Offline MrDavo

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2020, 03:58:47 PM »
As it was sunny on Friday I ignored working from home, and made a start. First job was whip the tyre off, if anyone wants a second hand 19" Avon AM20 let me know, I'll be using new tyres, possibly Conti Twins, but that's a long way off.



Next tog up to use the anglegrinder. Old ski goggles, CCR hat and headphones. Apparently, this self photography malarkey is a thing these days.



And liberate the hub from the wheel. The tyre underneath is a Dunlop KR76 racing triangular, kept as a souvenir, as fitted to my first classic racer. The brutal profile alarms me to look at it now, no namby pamby 'I'll just lean it over a little' with those, it was bolt upright on a knife edge or all the way over with sparks coming from the exhaust grounding, no in between.  :shock:


Finally I masked the hub to give it some satin black. Who knew you could bend masking tape? Its a roll of genuine Duck brand tape, but it bent better than I expected, saving a lot of time. There were two speedo drives, a pristine one that was seized, and a tatty one full of grease that was just fine.



Painting the hub was premature, as I then realised that the threads in the bolt holes for the l/h disc were mostly bolloxed. while the hub is separate seems the best time to get this sorted out. The other side the holes are pristine, because the bike has previously been single disc, I've two sets of calipers and discs so I'm going double, because slowing down can be a good thing sometimes. No master cylinder so I can make sure I get the right one for this. Ive two of the chrome wheel trims spare if anyone needs one.

 I've had a quote from an auto engineering firm in Inverness to fit six Wurth Timeserts for £150 plus VAT, I intend to get the best job possible as brakes that come loose are not an option. That does seem a lot though, so I'll keep looking around. Is there anything I need to know about the pitch of the threads, or are they just standard Metric?

Last night I printed out the frame pages from the parts list, and ordered all the parts I need to fasten the engine in the frame. However I'm stuck for one of the engine plates, I think its the lower one. The one I have I think is the front, slightly larger with more socially distanced holes, can anyone confirm this from the photo below? If anyone has the plate I need, get in touch, as the only one I've found so far is in Ohio, and its a 3 week wait to get it, longer if ParcelFarce play silly beggars with the VAT + collection fee etc. Z-Power only do sets, and won't break them.



Finally, this picture is shamelessly half inched from an Ebay ad, but as its the same year, model, specification, colour, and has double discs, is exactly what I'm going for. I may print a copy and stick it on the garage wall for inspiration.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 04:04:34 PM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline Bryanj

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2020, 09:31:29 PM »
The keenserts are dead easy to fit but sometimes the outer thread is an odd pitch and you have to order a tap, but if you can drill a hole and use a tap you can do it yourself.
Its a helluva long time ago since i removed a Kawasaki disc but from memory threads are standard but hex size may be odd like Honda using 12mm head where most use 13mm

Offline MrDavo

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2020, 10:02:01 PM »
Thanks for the information on the threads, Bryan.

I think I’m going to send the hub off tomorrow, so the engineering firm can get it right the first time rather than beggaring up my hub while learning on the job. I’m afraid I have the same approach to spray painting and welding- I understand the basics but due to inexperience I reckon it may be better to pay a professional to do it right first time rather than the very real risk of suffering an expensive lesson.
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline MrDavo

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2020, 12:54:18 PM »
Hub sent on holiday to bonny Scotland for Timesert fitting in the disc bolt holes, meanwhile small boxes have started to arrive, including taper rollers for the headstock, front wheel bearings and spokes, oil filter & spring etc, and all the nuts and bolts etc to fit the engine into the frame. I'm going to whip off the sump plate, clutch and cam covers just to check all is present and correct, and put some assembly lube on the cams. I already discovered no points plate or alternator stator (but they came in the boxes) under their covers or an oil filter. I can't just assume things like the oil pump and screen are there and never look, only to find out the hard way that they aren't, I already could easily have done that with the oil filter.

I've told the postie that I'm building a bike by post, he thinks I'll have it done in no time at this rate.

If anyone has one, I'm desperately seeking the lower triangular engine mounting plate, it seems to be AWOL, and the nearest available one, other than buying a complete set from Z-Power, is in Ohio.

1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

Offline Spitfire

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #58 on: August 05, 2020, 07:44:05 PM »
Hi Dave the postie will soon be giving you another package containing a manual, I posted it today.

Cheers

Dennis
1976 CB750F

1977 CB750F2 In bits

1964 BSA A65R In bits

Offline MrDavo

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Re: Z1 as a project?
« Reply #59 on: August 05, 2020, 11:10:21 PM »
Thanks very much Dennis  :D

ETA: That was quick, I just answered the door to the postie, today I got the manual and a huge box from M&P, containing a lot of packaging and a small box of nuts bolts and washers I bought as backup, for where NOS Kawasaki ones won’t be seen anyway. The book is pure Z1 porn, Dennis, I’m off for a browse.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 10:35:52 AM by MrDavo »
1969 Honda CL450 'Scrambler'
1974 Kawasaki Z1A
2005 Harley XL1200R Sportster
1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera Sport
1978 VW Bay Window camper van

 

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