Author Topic: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.  (Read 46084 times)

Offline Bryanj

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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #255 on: August 24, 2021, 10:53:21 PM »
You can turn the drum or move the selector shaft but you need 3 hands to test all the gears as you need to rotate both gearbox sharts whilst trying to select gears

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #256 on: August 26, 2021, 03:17:47 PM »
One giant leap forward for Ted not a giant leap for most sohc members!

This afternoon I started the task of fitting pistons into the bottom of my block cylinders after a couple of decades  only fitting pistons on cars from the top end. This video was my homework the day before :- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfCwpDsP_5E

For the benefit of those who have yet to start this task I'm going to verbalise my process.

1) I checked that the piston ring gaps were suitably in a staggered position on each piston & that there was oil smeared on the cylinder insides. Gasket was in place with the two locating  dowels
  one on either side.

2) I put a long socket on the mainshaft as my clutch basket is not in place so I could easily rotate the crank slightly if needed to wiggle pistons a tad.

3) I found a suitable piece of wood to support the block at the centre where the camchain runs. I ensured that the wood was tall enough to hold the block just clear of the pistons when 2 & 3
     pistons were close to the top of the stroke.

4) I carefully fitted the block over the studs lowering it until it touched the piece of wood. (see picture)

5) I fed the camchain through the block using a cable tie then secured it to the frame so the chain was reasonably taught. (used spare small dog collar on frame lol)

6) I rotated the crank so that pistons 2 & 3 were about an inch from maximum height - the idea was I would be able to pull the pistons up towards the cylinder liner/block if needed.

7) I carefully removed the block of wood - then put another block of wood that was about an inch thinner in place carefully feeding the pistons into liners 2 & 3 as I lowered the block ensuring
    pistons 1 & 4 were not trapped as I did this. The cylinder liners have a great suitable taper start to them.

8) I then made sure the top ring of piston 2 was in position at the start of the taper to the liner. I then moved to piston 3 and fed the top ring into the taper. A combination of pulling up on the
     pistons or allowing the block to move down made them go into place with no need for excessive force that could break a ring.

9) Once the first ring of pistons 2 & 3 were into the taper I squirted some thin oil onto the top of the pistons. I then repeated the above process until the second ring & finally the oil control rings
    were inside the bores. I lost count of how many times I circled the bike ramp to check everything was in place. Now I was happy that pistons 2 & 3 were in place I rotated the crank to give me
     some room / height to repeat the process for pistons 1 & 4.

10) I now had all four pistons in the liners so was able to just wobble the whole block down very carfully & evenly  making sure the liners did not touch the crankcase sides as it finally engaged
      the bottom dowels.

11) Tbh the whole process took about 40 minutes as I kept walking round to make sure each ring was in place. I found that I could not just use my fingers to fit the rings for the last two pistons
       as the gap and angle was a bit tight even when I rotated the crank to raise the block a little. I used a 4" offcut of 25mm Speedfit pipe to assist my finger nails for the last two pistons.

I had no issues with the front down tube getting in the way - periodically the wooden block would fall out so I would move it to the other side.

..block in position by Macabe Thiele, on Flickr


pistons in place by Macabe Thiele, on Flickr
     



« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 04:51:03 AM by Macabethiele (Ted) »
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline Nurse Julie

  • 1977 CB550/4 Mongrel Brat. 1974 UK 500/4 K1. Honda CD250u.
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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #257 on: August 26, 2021, 03:33:00 PM »
Great work Ted and a very good written explanation of how it's done.
LINK TO MY EBAY PAGE. As many of you know already, I give 10% discount and do post at cost to forum members if you PM me direct.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/julies9731/m.html?item=165142672569&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

LINK TO MY CB400/4 ENGINE STRIP / ASSESSMENT AND REBUILD...NOW COMPLETE
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14049.msg112691/topicseen.html#new

Offline Erwin83

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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #258 on: August 26, 2021, 04:13:15 PM »
Sounds about right  ;D. An often forgotten piece of advice is to wear comfortable shoes. The walking distance on jobs like these is not to be underestimated.
CB466f - KTM 1190 advR

Offline smoothoperator

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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #259 on: August 26, 2021, 07:32:25 PM »
Great stuff Ted with a useful guide and photos that will be helpful for many of us yet to tackle this important step.
Steve
2017 Triumph Bonneville T100
1977 Honda 400 Four Restored April 2022

Offline Laverda Dave

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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #260 on: August 26, 2021, 08:59:18 PM »
Well done Ted. You could have it running before the weather turns bad👍.
1976 Honda 400/4
1977 Rickman Honda CR750
1999 Honda VFR 800FX
1955 750 Dresda Triton
1978 Moto Morini 350 Sport
1978 Honda CB400/4 'Rat' bike
1982 Laverda 120 Jota

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #261 on: September 04, 2021, 05:46:13 PM »
Started the decoke of the cylider head so far No:1 cylinder valves nicely ground in just need to do a bit more on No:2 inlet.

.Head decoking started by Macabe Thiele, on Flickr
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline Laverda Dave

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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #262 on: September 04, 2021, 06:13:29 PM »
A nice way to spend a boring Saturday afternoon Ted. Are you going to skim the head?
1976 Honda 400/4
1977 Rickman Honda CR750
1999 Honda VFR 800FX
1955 750 Dresda Triton
1978 Moto Morini 350 Sport
1978 Honda CB400/4 'Rat' bike
1982 Laverda 120 Jota

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #263 on: September 04, 2021, 07:11:33 PM »
A nice way to spend a boring Saturday afternoon Ted. Are you going to skim the head?

As the head gasket  was not leaking before I dismantled the engine  plus I have been careful to not damage the contact surfaces I can't see the need - I will carefully remove any old bits of gasket so am hoping a skim is not required.

Probably worth getting it checked against  suitable flat device  - I plan to ask my friend who is a mobile mechanic how they check alloy heads at work - not sure what the protocols are on the sohc site.

Do you have a view Dave?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2021, 07:15:09 PM by Macabethiele (Ted) »
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline Laverdaroo

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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #264 on: September 05, 2021, 09:10:19 AM »
Dont they check them on an engineers plate or a sheet of  glass? (or is that the back street 2 stroke tuner in me piping up)?
Mornings are the invention of the devil!

1977 CB550F (current money pit!!)
2002 VFR800 VTEC (The Beloved)
1977 CB400F (the last money pit!)
1998 Ducati 748\853 conversion(sold :()
1980 ish CB750KZ in a billion bits (need to get rid, anybody want one?))

Offline Bryanj

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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #265 on: September 05, 2021, 10:36:19 AM »
Plate glass is perfect for the job

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #266 on: September 22, 2021, 11:06:35 PM »
As I am waiting for parts from DS I decided to make the earth connections for my indicator lamps & fit the front indicator lamps - a bit boring - yes it's not the standard headlamp but decided to keep the original headlamp frame to help with stabalizing the new light. I might have to shorten one of the new earth leads. The headlamp bolt spacers are a temporary mock up to see how it all fits - ideas stolen from Allan Kelly.

The eagle eyed members will have noted I have a new garage door as my old one was worn out after 31 years.

.front  idicators fitted by Macabe Thiele, on Flickr
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #267 on: September 24, 2021, 11:40:56 AM »
I forgot to take a photo of the top of the block with the four dowels, seals, oil restrictors etc in place - well covered in the manual & the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfCwpDsP_5E)

With the camchain tensioner blades both in place I lowered the head partway down the studs so I could feed the tensioner blades through the cylinder head tunnel/slot. The camchain that had a long cable tie attached was fed through the gap between the two blades. Head went down engaging easily with the dowels. Fitted the copper washers & domed nuts in place with the doughty washers, correct nuts fitted to the studs in the spark plug access hole. Fitted rear tensioner blade top cap in place having fitted new plastic clip earlier - finger tightened , front blade in slot on head.
Torqued down cylinder head in sequence as per manual working in stages of 8, 12, 16 then finally 19.6 Nm - lost count of how many circuits of the bike stand I walked during this process. Finally torqued down the two bolts on the cam tensioner top cap. Spark plugs loosly back into head to keep out muck.

I have fitted the tensioner top cap the wrong way around in the picture so had to change it,


.cylinder head fitted by Macabe Thiele, on Flickr
 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 11:58:40 AM by Macabethiele (Ted) »
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline Nurse Julie

  • 1977 CB550/4 Mongrel Brat. 1974 UK 500/4 K1. Honda CD250u.
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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #268 on: September 24, 2021, 11:56:33 AM »
That's looking great Ted.
LINK TO MY EBAY PAGE. As many of you know already, I give 10% discount and do post at cost to forum members if you PM me direct.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/julies9731/m.html?item=165142672569&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

LINK TO MY CB400/4 ENGINE STRIP / ASSESSMENT AND REBUILD...NOW COMPLETE
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14049.msg112691/topicseen.html#new

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: OAP Ted's CB400F2 rebuild - engine not run for about 12 years.
« Reply #269 on: September 24, 2021, 12:32:03 PM »
Whilst I had the energy left decided to fit the camshaft in position - once I had reversed the top retaining cap for the tensioner arm I could get the chain on the top sprocket.lol
It took me a few nano seconds to spot my error.

Timing mark on TDC for cylinders 1 & 4 I used the big nut on the primary drive gear to rotate the engine, threaded the camshaft carefully into position cutting off the cable tie slipping the chain onto the sprocket until the timing marks lined up horizontally.

I rotated the camshaft to align with the sprocket holes & bolted it in position with the large disc plate in place. Now I am either very lucky that the holes lined up first time if it's an offset lug on the camshaft or I need to check that it on compression for number 1 cylinder on the cam lobes?

.TDC crank marks by Macabe Thiele, on Flickr

.cam timing marks by Macabe Thiele, on Flickr

It's not arterial blood but an excess of assembly lube in the photo
 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 12:40:57 PM by Macabethiele (Ted) »
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

 

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