Engine full of fuel and seized up

[Trigger]

With the basket out can you turn the kick start cog with your hand ? It should turn forwards and you should hear the ratchet clicking.

[PJM47]

The kickstart cog turns freely in either direction no ratchet clicking but with a slight downward pressure in the kickstart lever the cog will then only turn anti clockwise and you can gear the ratchet sounding normal.

[Trigger]

Right, that all sounds fine on the kick start.
Now without the basket in can, you turn the shaft easy and select all gears that way ?

Do you have the transmission cover off ? I would like to see a picture with that cover off. 

[PJM47]

hi, yes shaft turns easily in all gears. Gears and neutral all seem to select correctly.

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[Trigger]

Everything looks good behind the misson cover.
Now, this is not making any sense. The kick start cog turns the clutch basket with is on the shaft. If the kick start is working fine and it sounds like it is, then the kick should turn the basket which, turns the shaft.

[K2-K6]

Yes anti clockwise, it actually turns both ways. will check things you suggest and and try the basket back on tomorrow.

Could be that the starter sprag clutch was jammed so trying to turn the starter motor (from mechanical means) all the time.

Could try removing the starter motor and see what you get.

As Graham says, it's not adding up so something we're missing somewhere.

[PJM47]

It's not making sense to me either. The basket rotates if the engine is turned using the alternator bolt so that must be free. The kickstart rotates if the basket is not fitted so that must be free. All gears select ok and the rear wheel turns in any gear without the basket fitted. But with the basket fitted the kickstart will not move and nor will the rear wheel.

I'll have a look a the starter next. Is it easy enough to remove?

[Trigger]

The part that i have indicated  Blue pointer is the basket mount and will move when you turn the crank. The part indicated Red pointer is to the gear cogs and should only move when in gear.



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[Trigger]

Yes anti clockwise, it actually turns both ways. will check things you suggest and and try the basket back on tomorrow.

Could be that the starter sprag clutch was jammed so trying to turn the starter motor (from mechanical means) all the time.

Could try removing the starter motor and see what you get.

As Graham says, it's not adding up so something we're missing somewhere.

If the alternator housing is off, all you need to do is remove the small cog that connects the flywheel to the starter motor so, no need to remove the starter 

[Primus]

Sorry, I don't have any technical input to offer but I am enjoying this thread (in a perverse sort of way!). I really hope there is a successful conclusion to PJM47's issue.  It gives me the confidence should I encounter a serious issue that I can't resolve, that there is help out there. I'll continue to watch from the sidelines.

Paul

[K2-K6]

Yes anti clockwise, it actually turns both ways. will check things you suggest and and try the basket back on tomorrow.

Could be that the starter sprag clutch was jammed so trying to turn the starter motor (from mechanical means) all the time.

Could try removing the starter motor and see what you get.

As Graham says, it's not adding up so something we're missing somewhere.

If the alternator housing is off, all you need to do is remove the small cog that connects the flywheel to the starter motor so, no need to remove the starter 

Ooops, I forgot the alt cover was off 

Also then,  can check the sprag clutch by rotating the big gear, should try to turn turn the crankshaft if pushed anti clock,  and spin freely if you rotate clockwise.

[royhall]

Don't forget when the basket is out all turns well so not going to be starter or sprag clutch. My money's on the part that trigger posted a picture of, something has seized in that. That's the union piece between the two halves of the engine. This is like a whodunnit murder mystery.

[PJM47]

So looking at the picture the Blue arrowed part moves when I turn the crank. The red arrowed part moves when in gear and I turn the rear wheel. I put the basket back in one more time just to check and the kick start won't budge with basket in.

I also removed the cog that connects to the starter motor and this made no difference.

[K2-K6]

A question PJM47, when you turn the crankshaft with the alternator,  how far is that turning?  Can you rotate it complete revolution in both direction?

[K2-K6]

Don't forget when the basket is out all turns well so not going to be starter or sprag clutch. My money's on the part that trigger posted a picture of, something has seized in that. That's the union piece between the two halves of the engine. This is like a whodunnit murder mystery.

I was thinking the same Roy,  but with all assembled AND in neutral,  then the whole lot  can go round unimpeded.  Very puzzling.