Author Topic: 1977 400F2 first restore project  (Read 22577 times)

Offline Bryanj

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #150 on: August 07, 2021, 06:56:06 PM »
When you say waggle do you mean rock at the small end or there is side play at the big as in slide sideways ?

Offline smoothoperator

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #151 on: August 07, 2021, 09:46:14 PM »
There are 2 components. 1 is side to side which is the movement as the rod slides along the crank in the limited space it has to do so, this is probably the biggest element which I see as "normal", the other is a rocking movement which I interpret as a clearance between the shells and the journal.

As a test I removed the conrod, re-tightened the 2 bolts, then slid it on to the main journals at either end of the crank, the amount of "waggle" felt about the same. I expected it to feel tight I suppose but it slid on easily. I am assuming that the main journals are the same nominal diameter as the big end journals.
Steve
2017 Triumph Bonneville T100
1977 Honda 400 Four Restored April 2022

Offline Bryanj

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #152 on: August 07, 2021, 10:30:02 PM »
Cant remember but Honda manual will tell you.
Can you post a pic of the bearing surface of shells? And i would still check clearance with plastigauge

Offline 4wDaz

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #153 on: August 07, 2021, 10:53:37 PM »
I am assuming that the main journals are the same nominal diameter as the big end journals.
Mine were
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Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #154 on: August 08, 2021, 12:51:36 PM »
There are 2 components. 1 is side to side which is the movement as the rod slides along the crank in the limited space it has to do so, this is probably the biggest element which I see as "normal", the other is a rocking movement which I interpret as a clearance between the shells and the journal.

As a test I removed the conrod, re-tightened the 2 bolts, then slid it on to the main journals at either end of the crank, the amount of "waggle" felt about the same. I expected it to feel tight I suppose but it slid on easily. I am assuming that the main journals are the same nominal diameter as the big end journals.

Have you checked it with Plastigauge are the conrod halves bolted together the right way round?
Not sure checking it against the end mains will give you any answers.
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline smoothoperator

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #155 on: August 24, 2021, 08:31:57 PM »
Panic over, must learn to stop trusting my instincts and measure first. After a lot of plastigauging, both mains and big ends found to be well in spec so the old shells are going back in for another tour of duty. Started rebuilding the engine only to be stalled by another gremlin, one which doesn't rely on instinct, just eyeballs. Should have spotted it earlier however, 2 missing needles from the starter drive needle bearing. Part number is a superseded one so as the weather was nice went out for a ride to the local Honda dealer however it was a polite no can do and have you heard of David Silvers. The part is on a 2 week waiting time. Lot's of painting left to do before the weather turns.

Big ends now feel fine with some lubrication in them btw.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QFsHMVdFrBpvn8uZ9

« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 09:01:29 AM by smoothoperator »
Steve
2017 Triumph Bonneville T100
1977 Honda 400 Four Restored April 2022

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #156 on: August 24, 2021, 08:38:51 PM »
Good news on the crank bearings a pain about the needle roller though. I'm waiting for a pair of dowels before I can fit the barrels.
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline smoothoperator

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #157 on: September 14, 2021, 08:39:32 PM »
New needle roller received and fitted. Joined crankcase halves together, moving on to installing the clutch side parts next. Most of these have been cleaned ready however I have yet to look at the clutch plates which are currently still in the basket untouched since I took the engine apart way back in December.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/tRHzLsapSjHFDNYS9
Steve
2017 Triumph Bonneville T100
1977 Honda 400 Four Restored April 2022

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #158 on: September 14, 2021, 08:59:02 PM »
Nice looking bolts you have!
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline smoothoperator

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #159 on: September 22, 2021, 08:10:47 PM »
Clutch fitted with new Koyo bearing bought through Simply Bearings at an amazing price. Oil pump fitted. Points fitted with gap and static timing set. I replaced my points plate with a second hand one but found actually that the 2 stripped threads were screws and not the back plate which is obviously harder than the screws. One way to by screws I guess. New pistons in, a job I was a bit apprehensive about but with care and patience, they actually went in without putting up a fight.

I have built the engine up on the bench so far as I don't have a bike lift and didn't want to put the pistons in while crouched down. For now I am thinking about the choice between putting the engine into the frame with just a few parts fitted, e.g. Main stand, swing arm, OR building up the frame so that it has both wheels fitted. Any tips welcomed. I took the engine out by laying the bike on its side whilst it was pretty much fully built, and found this easy. In reverse though it seems it would be easier to protect the frame by putting the engine in at an early stage, but then how does this impact on building up the rest of the bike...

Pics

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yTV3j1RgXTKCbzV3A
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 08:14:49 PM by smoothoperator »
Steve
2017 Triumph Bonneville T100
1977 Honda 400 Four Restored April 2022

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #160 on: September 22, 2021, 08:45:54 PM »
I would build the bike up to a rolling chassis then get someone to help lift the engine in. As you say, it's really easy to lay the engine on its side and refit frame over it but then you have the problem of fitting the forks, swing arm, wheels etc. This is easy to do if you have a bike ramp to hang the front end off so you can fit the forks but never tried it without a ramp. Great photos, its looking very good.
LINK TO MY EBAY PAGE. As many of you know already, I give 10% discount and do post at cost to forum members if you PM me direct.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/julies9731/m.html?item=165142672569&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

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Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #161 on: September 22, 2021, 10:42:25 PM »
I would build the bike up to a rolling chassis then get someone to help lift the engine in. As you say, it's really easy to lay the engine on its side and refit frame over it but then you have the problem of fitting the forks, swing arm, wheels etc. This is easy to do if you have a bike ramp to hang the front end off so you can fit the forks but never tried it without a ramp. Great photos, its looking very good.

Fwiw I put my engine into the frame with just the front wheel in place whist on the centre stand for stabiity on my bike ramp, with no sump fitted (I fashioned a cardboard sump cover held in with 4 short screws to keep muck out) when the basic crankcase was fitted I then fitted the block & pistons - at present the chain guides are in place ready for fitting ther cylinder head. I fitted the sump yesterday but am waiting for some bits from DS before I fit the head. I was going to do the laying the frame on it's side route but did it the above way as it was easy to put some protection on the frame pus my rear wheel is not yet fitted. When I came to fitting the chain guides I found a torch held from above enabled me to check the guide location easily. There are cleary a number of ways to achieve the same outcome - what works for you is the best one - all roads lead to Damascus!

My brother helped with the lift as Wendy has a bad back & my brother is built like Cheyene Bodie he is 10 years my junior.
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline smoothoperator

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #162 on: October 14, 2021, 06:58:36 PM »
Plan to fit the engine at the weekend with some help. Meanwhile I have started the coil fix as a) one coil already had epoxy resin on one end I think in an attempt to keep water out, the inner wire is corroded slightly and b) because the HT leads are so stiff. Needed a new soldering iron as mine is ancient, also I wanted one that had temperature control, didn't spend much however it has worked well. As for the manufacturer, I've attached a picture, I am now the proud owner of a ....

Steve
2017 Triumph Bonneville T100
1977 Honda 400 Four Restored April 2022

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #163 on: October 14, 2021, 08:08:33 PM »
Plan to fit the engine at the weekend with some help. Meanwhile I have started the coil fix as a) one coil already had epoxy resin on one end I think in an attempt to keep water out, the inner wire is corroded slightly and b) because the HT leads are so stiff. Needed a new soldering iron as mine is ancient, also I wanted one that had temperature control, didn't spend much however it has worked well. As for the manufacturer, I've attached a picture, I am now the proud owner of a ....
Struth, what a mouthful for a manufacturers company name 😳😳😳😳😳
LINK TO MY EBAY PAGE. As many of you know already, I give 10% discount and do post at cost to forum members if you PM me direct.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/julies9731/m.html?item=165142672569&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

LINK TO MY CB400/4 ENGINE STRIP / ASSESSMENT AND REBUILD...NOW COMPLETE
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14049.msg112691/topicseen.html#new

Offline SumpMagnet

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Re: 1977 400F2 first restore project
« Reply #164 on: October 14, 2021, 11:58:14 PM »
well...I guess the corporate e-mail must take a while to type in!
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