Next Question! 500 Sprocket Carrier

[Erny]

Exactly. Good point. So no other chance just to disassemble it.

[K2-K6]

Yep, thats out Bryan. Its solid with no 'bounce' if it was stuck on the rubber cush drive - its a metalic feeling through the bar as I shock the sprocket.

Can you get a "slide hammer hub puller" onto the studs, that would then tap it out if it's seized in the metal bearing.

[Trigger]

I did not disassembly mine, but I've read that a lot of heat (propane) helps. There are also some videos on YT too I was told.
I tired, but gave up as it was not absolutely necessary

There's also a flip side to this if it's seized,  it will give a very hard time to the primary drive system inside the engine and particularly the chain. 

Relates to your other thread about engine noise Erny.

I could not agree with you more. There are two shock absorbers on the 500/550, one is the primary drive rubbers and the second is the cush drive rubbers. These are always hard on USA bikes and old UK units which effects all the drive parts as it is all connected.
Even if the bush area on the hub is dry it will not do its job and put more stress on the engine parts.
When i build a bike, the engine always gets new primary chain and rubbers. The bike is always given new chain and sprockets, the rear wheel has new bearings and cush rubbers. This makes all the parts last a lot longer than just changing only one or two parts. Skimping always costs more in the long run and can cause more problems   

[deltarider]

If parts are worn, IF, I'd expect play sideways. My drive flange was seriously worn. I was much helped by Oddjob. I have documented it here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=150358.0 Just skip that post by SoyBoySigh posted there. He's nuts.

[SteveD CB500K0]

Takes me back.

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Hubs with some random rants thrown in.

He’s not been around in a while, would you like me to delete it/them. Or maybe just move them onto a self publishing platform


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Trigger]

If parts are worn, IF, I'd expect play sideways. My drive flange was seriously worn. I was much helped by Oddjob. I have documented it here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=150358.0 Just skip that post by SoyBoySigh posted there. He's nuts.

If it had sideways movement, it would not be stuck  Stuck is rusted or seized to the hub. Have you not read the thread to realize what the problem is.

[philward]

Great explanation and advice everybody - I always change cush drive rubbers normally (which is why I was trying to get sprocket carrier off). Now I have to figure out how to get it off!
If the seizure is between the inner vertical face of the sprocket carrier and the hub centre (where the cush drive rubber nipples stick through into the brake area)? Is that where I should apply heat?
K2-K6 - no, unfortunately I haven't got access to a slide hammer but will make some kind of jig

[Seabeowner]

If parts are worn, IF, I'd expect play sideways. My drive flange was seriously worn. I was much helped by Oddjob. I have documented it here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=150358.0 Just skip that post by SoyBoySigh posted there. He's nuts.

Stuck in this case but good information. When I had a a couple apart a few years ago I had trouble sourcing new rubbers and they still seem hard to come by but DSS has one set ATM.
Soy Boy no longer with us.
https://necrocanada.com/obituaries-2018/silas-benjamin-moses-ginn-july-27-1973-august-31-2018-age-45/#.W5k6yvZFyaE

[philward]

If parts are worn, IF, I'd expect play sideways. My drive flange was seriously worn. I was much helped by Oddjob. I have documented it here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=150358.0 Just skip that post by SoyBoySigh posted there. He's nuts.

Stuck in this case but good information. When I had a a couple apart a few years ago I had trouble sourcing new rubbers and they still seem hard to come by but DSS has one set ATM.
Soy Boy no longer with us.
https://necrocanada.com/obituaries-2018/silas-benjamin-moses-ginn-july-27-1973-august-31-2018-age-45/#.W5k6yvZFyaE
Sorry - didn't see this post when I post last post

[deltarider]

If parts are worn, IF, I'd expect play sideways. My drive flange was seriously worn. I was much helped by Oddjob. I have documented it here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=150358.0 Just skip that post by SoyBoySigh posted there. He's nuts.

If it had sideways movement, it would not be stuck  Stuck is rusted or seized to the hub. Have you not read the thread to realize what the problem is.

Maybe I have missed it, but reading the OP, I haven't understood what the problem was to begin with... Let me put it this way. I know how hard it can be to get the rear wheel bearing out, even after you've succesfully freed the retainer. I've managed but I can assure you that the friend that was standing by, has learned some new words... What I'd would like to advise: don't undertake it, unless you have diagnosed a worn bearing. If you do it out of curiosity, you may well end up with a damaged retainer and even bearing. My warning is well ment. Over the years I have so often read about members undertaking things that left me bewondered: why go there, if you don't have to? If the OP has diagnosed there clearly is a problem, my warning is a shot in the dark ofcourse, that can be ignored. The 'problem' of freeing parts that are stuck, can be dealt with later, when you need to go there. At least that's how I see it. I'd would like to advise Erny, if there's no problem, leave it alone.
Greasing that hub is not sceduled in the maintenance routine. Normally, it doesn't need to be serviced, because the movement is a very little indeed. There is a problem however when the O-ring is not there anymore or damaged. Then rain can wash the grease away. Normally that O-ring doesn't get damaged. Powercleaners are to be avoided. The O-ring can become damaged or even lost, when things have been removed before and no attention was paid to that O-ring. Ihat might well have happened in my case.

[philward]

I have got the the bearing retainer out Lobo - its the alloy carrier that is stuck to the hub. There is no movement - it is solid to the hub, normally there is slight movement on the rubber cush drive rubbers (even if stuck on the rubbers).
I am beginning to agree with you ref replacing parts for the sake of it - all my rebuilds have been (in the main) replace anything that can wear - ie, I'm waiting for a DS order for all the the wheel/frame consumerables but when I got rear wheel bearings out, they are good - if I had had trouble with the bearing retainer removal, I would have cursed for doing it. Front wheel bearings seem good so I will keep the new bearings for the front wheel and fit if I need them. This approach will not apply to stuff that deteriates over time like rubber parts and engine parts that whould create major issues if they fail.

[Trigger]

It is not in your service schedule and that is why yours was damaged. Any lip on the bush will start to wear out the surface of the hub that it comes in contact with 

[K2-K6]

Great explanation and advice everybody - I always change cush drive rubbers normally (which is why I was trying to get sprocket carrier off). Now I have to figure out how to get it off!
If the seizure is between the inner vertical face of the sprocket carrier and the hub centre (where the cush drive rubber nipples stick through into the brake area)? Is that where I should apply heat?
K2-K6 - no, unfortunately I haven't got access to a slide hammer but will make some kind of jig

There's a possibility that a local motor factor shop has a loan one,  I've only borrowed such when needed as they do make something like this fairly easy and less "traumatic" for the structure. 

It's only pulling in the correct direction and you can use small tapping to get it free, so no leverage onto any other part.

[philward]

Great explanation and advice everybody - I always change cush drive rubbers normally (which is why I was trying to get sprocket carrier off). Now I have to figure out how to get it off!
If the seizure is between the inner vertical face of the sprocket carrier and the hub centre (where the cush drive rubber nipples stick through into the brake area)? Is that where I should apply heat?
K2-K6 - no, unfortunately I haven't got access to a slide hammer but will make some kind of jig

Just looled at schematics and see now the area of seizure and hence where to apply the heat.
Ironically (and don't shout at me!) I think I threw a spocket carrier away (I think, as I can't find it in the shed) that may have been off a 500 - as I built the CR750 Rep from parts and bought a sprocket carrier that by the time I got round to fitting it, realised it wasn't for a 750 but didn't know what bike it was for - was kicking around for years in the shed and got naffed of with all the mess in the shed so sold and binned loads of parts last year - hindsight!

[deltarider]

At risked being called a blasphemist, but... if mine were stuck, hm, I might leave it as it is. Surely, I'll miss some (minor) damping, but aren't there a lot of bikes out there, that lack this damping there altogether? I mean, look it from the bright side: your rear wheel will be a lot easier to balance dynamically than standard (practically impossible). Never understood why Honda designed it this way. Has the same design been applied on other Honda's?

Ironically (and don't shout at me!) I think I threw a spocket carrier away

I know the feeling, Philward. When I moved house in '85, I had the rear grab rail (PN 84101-323-671) in my hand thinking: will I ever need this again now that I have replaced it by a luggage carrier since long and so I have abandoned the grab rail. Now I want one again, because the bike looks sooooo much better with it (see Erny's bike). A repro will set me back some € 120,-.