Author Topic: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?  (Read 563 times)

Offline Macabethiele (Ted)

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I am trying to find the diameter of the steering shaft where the lower ball race sits at the bottom yoke.

As my lower race has not yet to be removed not sure if the diameter increases where the bearing sits. The shaft itself measures approximately 26.7 mm in diameter.

The place I am trying to source the taper bearing kit from bearing says the Top Bearing is 48.5mm OD: 26.0 mm ID that's right I think.

He gives the lower bearing as 50.00mm OD:30.0mmID. Unless there is a bigger diameter where the bearing sits I think the OD is too big.

Anyone here know the answer please ?
Honda CB400F2 under restoration
Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK
Mercedes R129 SL500

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2021, 04:37:43 PM »
Someone must have one out to measure for accuracy.

But I "think" they may be something odd like 1 1/8 inch as legacy from english bicycles,  making something like 28.55mm

Needs checking though. The crown race usually flares though to allow you to drop the bearings down the stem and just drift it home for the very last bit.

Offline Deano400

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Re: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2021, 11:27:40 AM »
Ignore the 0.01mm I haven't cleaned it.

Offline ka-ja

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Re: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2021, 12:25:22 PM »
Definately 30mm as already posted.
nice bike,nothing in the bank

Offline Macabethiele (Ted)

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Re: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2021, 09:17:01 PM »
Definately 30mm as already posted.

Thanks ka-ja & Deano400 I'm dropping my steering shaft & yoke at my BiL on Monday so he can remove the bottom race in a Covid secure environment.

I can order my taper roller kit with added confidence.

I have also realised that the correct bottom spacer will mean the steering lock will align properly with the hole in the column.

BiL has reoved the bottom bearing it is 30mm as has been posted. Just need to finalise the spacing and see if the one supplied is about right. Thanks folks. If it helps I will post the link here for the supplier.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 09:22:31 AM by Macabethiele (Ted) »
Honda CB400F2 under restoration
Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK
Mercedes R129 SL500

Offline Macabethiele (Ted)

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Re: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2021, 10:35:57 AM »
This is the e-bay online shop second link was how I found them - they had sold out of the cheaper bearings so mine were £30 including postage really helpful - they confirmed the actual bearing sizes too.
I asked if they would fit my model Honda that's when he came back to me with the right ones. They are also bike breakers selling used parts as well as some new stuff.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/offshorebikebits?_pgn=4


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Steering-bearings-taper-roller-Honda-CB250-350-400-450-500-550-650-750-super/153984339007?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
Honda CB400F2 under restoration
Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK
Mercedes R129 SL500

Offline AndyD

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Re: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2021, 04:27:33 PM »
Ted,
I had problems on the CB400 and also the CJ250T with two different brands of tapered bearings.
The issue seems to be that the upper bearing is simply thicker than the original so reduces available thread on the stem.
Bottom bearing with spacer worked out correctly but top bearing on both caused the problem.
Will be keen to see if the ones you have will work better as it seems crazy that the bearings aren't simply interchangeable without issue.
No other bikes I've worked on have had an issue so guess it's just on some models that things don't fit nicely.
Cheers,
Andy

Offline Macabethiele (Ted)

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Re: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2021, 09:24:58 AM »
Ted,
I had problems on the CB400 and also the CJ250T with two different brands of tapered bearings.
The issue seems to be that the upper bearing is simply thicker than the original so reduces available thread on the stem.
Bottom bearing with spacer worked out correctly but top bearing on both caused the problem.
Will be keen to see if the ones you have will work better as it seems crazy that the bearings aren't simply interchangeable without issue.
No other bikes I've worked on have had an issue so guess it's just on some models that things don't fit nicely.
Cheers,
Andy

I'll keep this post updated when the bearing arrive & I have fitted them it will be a few weeks away before I fit them as am doing the frame painting soon /next methinks.
Honda CB400F2 under restoration
Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK
Mercedes R129 SL500

Offline Macabethiele (Ted)

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Re: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2021, 05:49:05 AM »
Ted,
I had problems on the CB400 and also the CJ250T with two different brands of tapered bearings.
The issue seems to be that the upper bearing is simply thicker than the original so reduces available thread on the stem.
Bottom bearing with spacer worked out correctly but top bearing on both caused the problem.
Will be keen to see if the ones you have will work better as it seems crazy that the bearings aren't simply interchangeable without issue.
No other bikes I've worked on have had an issue so guess it's just on some models that things don't fit nicely.
Cheers,
Andy

Did your bottom spacer replace the existing one under the bottom bearing to allow for the difference in bearing height?
Honda CB400F2 under restoration
Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK
Mercedes R129 SL500

Offline Macabethiele (Ted)

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Re: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2021, 08:54:40 PM »
My taper bearing kit arrived today its a German Packaged brand by JMT shown as suitable for Honda CBb 250/350/400/500/550650/75 SSH750 clearly far too universal.

The bearing diameters are the  correct OD & ID  48.6 mm x 26mm for the top bearing: 50 mm x 30 mm for the bottom with a 4 mm spacer.

The Bottom Bearing measures 15.14mm deep: the top bearing 15.70mm deep approx.

What I can't get my head round is that the bottom ball bearing race is approx 13.5 deep. So if the bottom bearing is 15.14 mm deep why does it need a 4 mm spacer as that would raise everything too high as has been mention by others ?

My worst case scenario is I fit the taper roller on the bottom that takes a pounding and put a ball bearing on the top if they do not fit as a pair. A sort of neither fish nor fleash option.

Anyones input / observations welcome.

Honda CB400F2 under restoration
Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK
Mercedes R129 SL500

Offline Bryanj

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Re: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2021, 10:49:46 AM »
The parts you cant remove are the outer races on the tapers as when fitted there is no "lip" sticking inwards to get a drift on, only way i found was a dremel which, of course, wrecks the race.
You can get the inner races off fairly easily so i would suggest fitting the lower bearing with no shim to start and holding tight into frame to see if anything interfears at frame/yoke ares, on the 500 i used a 1mm shim bought off ebay for not much

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2021, 01:41:43 PM »
If I can find the races off the set I bought in the 80s I'll measure the top race and see how it compares to yours, can't do that with the bottom as Bryan says getting the inner races out is problematic but the top race will come out if you lever it.
Don't play stupid with me, I'm better at it

Offline Macabethiele (Ted)

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Re: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2021, 08:28:54 PM »
If I can find the races off the set I bought in the 80s I'll measure the top race and see how it compares to yours, can't do that with the bottom as Bryan says getting the inner races out is problematic but the top race will come out if you lever it.

No worries I measured my bottom race it was 13.5 mm or thereabouts - I have my top race out I will measure it with the balls in place & post the thickness I get.
Honda CB400F2 under restoration
Jeep Grand Cherokee WJ
Jeep Grand Cherokee WK
Mercedes R129 SL500

Offline Seabeowner

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Re: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2021, 09:23:16 AM »

What I can't get my head round is that the bottom ball bearing race is approx 13.5 deep. So if the bottom bearing is 15.14 mm deep why does it need a 4 mm spacer as that would raise everything too high as has been mention by others ?

I think this is because of the different contact points between the two types of bearing. It is higher on the taper bearing so although the overall length (depth) may be about the same the lower yoke will sit in to far without a spacer. Turning the bearing over will give a different result.
Phil
1971  CB500K0  Candy Jade Green
1973  CB500K1  Candy Ruby Red
1975  CB550F1   Shiny Orange
1978  CB550K     Excel Black

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Does anyone know the diameter of the CB400F2 steering shaft at the base?
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2021, 11:14:16 AM »
The original ball set standard equipment cannot be matched as far as I understand,  that's in tapered std manufactured.

Contemporary times for these, suppliers like Dresda had taper sets ground to match the Honda fit and sold as kits.

Referenced by Bryan in this thread  http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=1516.0 to effectively give a drop in set. 

 

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