Black Bomber not charging

[royhall]

This is the wiring diagram I modified at the time. Does it look correct? It has added, a voltage regulator from a later model, and a Silicone rectifier in place of the Selenium unit.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[AshimotoK0]

That's weird Roy only one coil and contact breaker?

This is a decent 5-speed diagram  ....  of course in the Bomber loom the brown wire changed to pink and the pink changed to white

Basically on the 5-sp later codes the Yellow and pink outputs are wired directly to the single phase silicon rectifier. The white wire is the night charging coil and goes through the headlamp switch and connects to the rectifier when the lights are switched on to boost the power (the switch connects together the white and yellow wires with light on) . The yellow wire also connects  the the solid state regulator as a sense wire. The other two wires of the regulator connect to the battery positive (black via ignition switch) and negative (green) .. as drawn in your diagram.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[royhall]

Thanks for that Ash. I have seen that wiring diagram before, unfortunately it does not represent the wiring that's actually on an early Bomber. As a for instance the lights are controlled by the ignition switch and not seperate switches, plus the pink from the generator does not go straight to the rectifier but via the ignition switch to cut in with the lights. Although my diagram only shows the one coil (I didn't bother changing that bit as it's obvious) it is actually what was on my bike originally except for the minor voltage regulator and rectifier changes.  I will at some point change it to show two coils and points then it should be correct. Do the regulator/rectifier changes I made look correct to you.

[AshimotoK0]

Thanks for that Ash. I have seen that wiring diagram before, unfortunately it does not represent the wiring that's actually on an early Bomber. As a for instance the lights are controlled by the ignition switch and not seperate switches, plus the pink from the generator does not go straight to the rectifier but via the ignition switch to cut in with the lights. Although my diagram only shows the one coil (I didn't bother changing that bit as it's obvious) it is actually what was on my bike originally except for the minor voltage regulator and rectifier changes.  I will at some point change it to show two coils and points then it should be correct. Do the regulator/rectifier changes I made look correct to you.

No because the PINK on the late alternator should connect directly to the rectifier AC input  ..this was the BROWN wire originally on the K0 so it should connect to the BROWN loom wire (not via the switch). The YELLOW wire is the same for both models and that should connect directly to the other AC terminal of the rectifier (it also goes to the switch and to the regulator you added) . The WHITE wire of the the late alternator was  PINK on the K0 so the WHITE wire of the late alternator should  connect to the K0 loom PINK wire.  Hope this all makes sense 

[royhall]

That makes sense Ash. This is the headache for this weekend. There's a possible extra mix up as the harness is also new so could be either wire colours will have to recheck. It's a really good quality harness that came from Vietnam, not too expensive either. Is there another way to check which wires are which from the alternator as the colours are very faded and hard to really be sure about. The pink has faded virtually white and the white is stained darker, I think? Once I get this all right I will update my wiring diagram to correctly show what is actually there.

[Bryanj]

If you look at the coil diagram posted earlier one pair of wires has just two coils and the other pair four coils(when link disconnected) now assuming all the coils are the same the resistance will be different, in theory i would hope themanual had numbers BUT you need a good meter as the readings will be low

[AshimotoK0]

If you look at the coil diagram posted earlier one pair of wires has just two coils and the other pair four coils(when link disconnected) now assuming all the coils are the same the resistance will be different, in theory i would hope the manual had numbers BUT you need a good meter as the readings will be low

The daytime/night-time coils are wound from different diameter wires I believe Bryan. I will check what the resistances should be later as at work today.

[Bryanj]

Working on the fly here Ash as ive never done a 450 and very few 500twin

[royhall]

I have been back in the garage and had a look at the wiring. Due to brown becoming pink I had two wires reversed, but surely there would have still been a detectable voltage to the battery. Whilst it was apart I got the following readings:

Resistance
Pink to Yellow is 1.9 ohms
Pink to White is 1.4 ohms
White to Yellow is 2.2 ohms

Running voltage
Pink to Yellow is 21 volts idle and 49 volts revved (open circuit)

Battery voltage
12.69 volts engine off and 12.73 volts with engine revving

Amperage
Measured between battery live and live lead
1.5 amps with engine revved (lights off)
4.1 amps with engine revved (lights on)

Do any of the above figures look correct. I was expecting more amps with the lights off looks fairly poor. Does this mean the battery is now charging since I have swapped the two cables?
Also, I don't know if this is correct but I disconnected the red output from the rectifier and measured the voltage between that and battery negative and it was 27 volts (not sure I did that correctly so it may be meaningless).

[Bryanj]

Is that +ve amps? If so its fine. Due to the way the charging system works you wont get high numbers

[royhall]

That's right Bryan positive amps. Do you think that's good enough. I was surprised at the extra boost with the lights on due to the other coils cutting in. Perhaps I should always run with the lights on.

[AshimotoK0]

That sounds a lot better Roy

This graph shows the currents/voltages for the 5-speed alternator without and with the voltage regulator connected.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[Bryanj]

Are you using standard or led bulbs?

[royhall]

Standard bulbs.

[Bryanj]

Must just be a characteristic of the charging coils, it looks similar to the old Lucas system where there were 3 charge levels,
1 two coils charging with the other 4 shorted, this caused the coils to reduce the effective magnetic field of the rotor
2 two coils charging with other 4 open circuit, increased mag field slightly improved charging
3 all 6 coils charging full output depending on revs