Author Topic: Carburettors  (Read 2338 times)

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2021, 10:42:43 AM »
Yes, all the carbs throughout the CB SOHC /4 model ranges had certain parts yellow passivated.
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Offline Sesman

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2021, 10:53:21 AM »
Thanks Julie.

I’m guessing then it’s the choke linkages/adjusters and throttle open/closing mechanism and stops?

Out of interest, can you confirm the fuel line is 5.5mm ID and from where I might source a T connector. Apologies in advance for being a lazy (lousy) research type :)

Offline Laverdaroo

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2021, 07:02:27 PM »
Quote: And that's my point. At least you're open about it: your desire for 'a thorough clean'. My objective was and is to inform others, there are no technical reasons to take carbs thus far apart. Most of us here are amateurs and may mistakenly conclude it's a good procedure to overhaul carbs.

More out of necessity than a desire, they were solid from top to bottom and without knowing what was knackered I couldnt replace it, I'm not doing it for fun ;D. If yer gotta, yer gotta!
Its always daunting but you just take your time and enjoy it. nothing better when it starts after  the smallest of prods of the button after a refurb/build.

"Never fix wharrin't broke but allus  repair it if it tin't working". My dad always said that and it turns out I'm as tight as he was and go by the same ethic , hence my history of buggering about with motorbikes my entire life;D ;D

Mornings are the invention of the devil!

1977 CB550F (current money pit!!)
2002 VFR800 VTEC (The Beloved)
1977 CB400F (the last money pit!)
1998 Ducati 748\853 conversion(sold :()
1980 ish CB750KZ in a billion bits (need to get rid, anybody want one?))

Offline Sesman

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2021, 09:15:01 PM »
I’m with you on the “ if it ain’t broke don’t fix it philosophy”. Taking stuff apart and putting it back together has been a life long affliction for me and it’s not always been fun! I just can’t help myself. Fully agree with your views.

Will be interested in your Gaterous plating project Oddjob.




Offline Sesman

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2021, 01:15:17 PM »
Thanks for the update, Ken. Absolutely no rush for the Speedo drive and really looking forward to the plating project. Some real chemistry going on there. By the way, I’m happy to make a contribution regarding the drive.

Regards

Phil

Offline Erny

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2021, 07:35:08 PM »
My experience with carbs rebuilt by Gerben, it was for 022A set, jets 40/100. All brass original Keihin.
As said here, Gerben work looks very good (even I'm not a fan of polished bowls).

However, funcionally vise I was never able to achieve good idling despite a lot of sync tries. Additionally, behaviour at lower RPMs not good (felt like too rich). First I replaced slow jets from 40 to 38 (new NOS Keihins). It improved a little but still, running engine between 2500-3000 felt too rich and rough.
Having cabs off the bike this spring and reading some forum thread pointing to sensitivity of emulsification tubes plus fact that my tubes were falling off the carb bodies when main jet is removed, I checked them into detail and compared with keyster replicas I bought some time ago.
Guess what - I found internal surface of hole rough / corroded.

As all outside dimensions and size/position of holes on tubes were the same as on Keyster replicas, I decided to put them in (I had to push them inside with some force, so they do not fall out by themselves). I did not change needles that required additional dissassmbly.

After bench sync only (bearing balls method) carbs installed - whoola! Bike idles much better, chain rattle almost gone. Additionaly runs great, smooth on lower RPMs, I can easily "cruise" on ~2500 RPMs and engine picks up easily w/o hesitation. So only simple change of tubes change bike behaviour a lot!

=> before deciding to use original old used tubes, check them inside. In this specific case originals are not always better than alternatives ;)

Attached pic comparing new Keyster (left) with OEM Keihin
CB750K7 US model (1977)
CB550K1 US model (1975)

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2021, 08:30:40 PM »
Ken . ... I just started bright zinc plating again after about ten years as I usually send mine to Allenchrome. However, their lead times and prices went right up last year plus my parts are mega rare and small CB92  parts that are nigh on impossible to replace unless you have ££££££.

I used to use Gateros for chemicals  but I am going to buy the zinc solution pre-mixed from YouPlate this time as they use potassium chloride/boric acid rather than ammonium chloride. Interesting that they don't recommend zinc/nickel for home use because of the difficulties in maintaining the electrolyte consistency.

I usually get my de-ionised water from Eurocarparts.

http://www.youplate.co.uk/zinc.html


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“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2021, 10:10:20 PM »
Here is the YouPlate advice Ken

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“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline deltarider

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2021, 12:48:35 PM »
[...] even I'm not a fan of polished bowls [...]
+1 Every now and then one sees these Honda's with parts polished to a degree they never ever had before, not even in the showrooms. Personally I prefer the original 'satin' look.
Quote
Guess what - I found internal surface of hole rough / corroded.[...]
I had to push them inside with some force, so they do not fall out by themselves. [...]
In my experience just pushing them in gently, is good enough. No need to drive them in with a wooden stick like Marco demonstrates in one of his vids. When the main jet is pushed in as far as it goes, the tube will also be in position. For cleaning the tube's inside, use one of grandpa's pipe cleaners. Do not apply abrasive stuff. Maybe just a tiny bit of toothpaste or some cigar ash in water.

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2021, 07:24:22 PM »
Here is the YouPlate advice Ken

(Attachment Link)

That may be confined to where the solution is in the chemicals Ash, it seems to work when plating from anodes ok or I doubt that Gateros would sell the kit, according to them the result is 90% zinc and 10% nickel.

From what I can make out Gateros was started by a hobbyist (nowt wrong with that) but the Youplate people are professional plating suppliers that have starting selling to the home plating market and  thought their reasoning for not offering Zinc/Nickel was pretty convincing. By the way, Caswell Europe asked me to evaluate the power supply that Gateros sell and it was very poor build quality so. IMHO, don't be tempted to buy one.
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline Laverdaroo

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2021, 07:50:52 PM »
I've a bench top variable power source with controllable voltage and amps. If you've not got one, happy to lend it out for a bit if it helps you out? I wont be plating until after christmas so its redundant for the minute.
Mornings are the invention of the devil!

1977 CB550F (current money pit!!)
2002 VFR800 VTEC (The Beloved)
1977 CB400F (the last money pit!)
1998 Ducati 748\853 conversion(sold :()
1980 ish CB750KZ in a billion bits (need to get rid, anybody want one?))

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2021, 07:44:34 AM »
Here is the YouPlate advice Ken

(Attachment Link)

That may be confined to where the solution is in the chemicals Ash, it seems to work when plating from anodes ok or I doubt that Gateros would sell the kit, according to them the result is 90% zinc and 10% nickel.

From what I can make out Gateros was started by a hobbyist (nowt wrong with that) but the Youplate people are professional plating suppliers that have starting selling to the home plating market and  thought their reasoning for not offering Zinc/Nickel was pretty convincing. By the way, Caswell Europe asked me to evaluate the power supply that Gateros sell and it was very poor build quality so. IMHO, don't be tempted to buy one.

Bit late to tell me that Ash.

Bit late to say about the companies or the Power unit Ken ?

Re: Gateros ... I always used their chemicals when I plated my own stuff 10 years ago. They were extremely helpful and I got good results. I loaned my plating stuff out to a guy in Hull and he plated everything on his import CB750K2  with it and his bike was featured in Classic Bike Magazine's '10 best bikes of the year issue 2011.  (see pic. attached)

My main issue with home plating is the overall cost compared with getting it done commercially as the costs can really stack up and it's very time consuming and fiddly to get right. Washing everything in de-ionised water adds to this too.   But very satisfying when you get it right though. Plus I have found commercial prices / leead times have gone up a lot since the pandemic so trying it out  it again.

Revisiting this all ten years later there are a few more home plating  kit suppliers out there now  and the thing about YoupPlate is they sell all of the chemicals separately ..... most other places sell you a 'kit' of replacement chemicals. On the zinc-nickel plating I considered the options and it's tricky enough maintaining the standard bright zinc solution to get decent results (it's fine when you 1st use it but it degrades over time and needs PH balancing, brightening maintenance chemicals adding and 'plate-out' to remove contaminants after a while. So I  read the You Plate notes and decided against it and to stick with standard bright-zinc with passivisation.

BTW I made a schoolboy error last week   :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ ... I connected the electrodes the wrong way round and left the zinc plating for 40 minutes meaning that excess iron got into the electrolyte and trashed 5l of chemicals. I read up about adding Hydrogen peroxide and then filtering etc but in despair I just threw it all away and decided to get the ready mixed Youplate bright zinc stuff this time.  Plus, I doubt I will ever get the connection wrong again after that expensive error..... well hopefully!

On the Gateros PSU .... I was asked to evaluate the same PSU that Gateros buy in, by Caswell Europe and we mutually decided that's it a cheap and cheerful construction and we wouldn't recommend it. Having said that, they have been selling it for a while and you could get decent results from plating with it, so don't worry if have already bought  one. I would use a separate multimeter to check the plating current though because the current reading on the two examples we bought wasn't very accurate.


« Last Edit: October 27, 2021, 08:15:42 AM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline Sesman

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2021, 10:54:05 AM »
C’mon guys. We need to see some shiny product. Waiting and wishing… ;D.

Do you plant to do some yellow passivate, it’s my favourite finish.

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2021, 04:19:31 PM »
C’mon guys. We need to see some shiny product. Waiting and wishing… ;D.

Do you plant to do some yellow passivate, it’s my favourite finish.

Done with Gateros Bright Zinc & blue passivate.

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“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline Sesman

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Re: Carburettors
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2021, 04:46:34 PM »
That looks just mighty fine in the photo. Are you happy with it?

 

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