Author Topic: The rebirth of Lazarus  (Read 22033 times)

Offline Sesman

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 2000
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2022, 07:42:02 AM »
Which bit are we talking about please. You have me worried as I don’t recollect seeing this in my rebuild….☹️

Offline Trigger

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 8434
  • Engines built on reputation, not advertising.
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2022, 07:46:36 AM »
Which bit are we talking about please. You have me worried as I don’t recollect seeing this in my rebuild….☹️

The engine in this thread is a CB500 Four and not a CB550  ;)

Offline Sesman

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 2000
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2022, 10:39:57 AM »
Phew..thanks trigger.

Offline mickwinf

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 1737
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #78 on: July 31, 2022, 12:35:10 PM »
So I am starting the re-assembly of Lazarus's engine and have rebuilt the gearbox and now fitting the crankshaft. I have a problem with number 2 big end journal, when i fit the con rod it feels tight and a bit notchy. I have new bearings according to the numbers on the crank and rod, and have tried both green and yellow with the same effect. Looking at the shells they seem to rub near the joint between the main rod and cap, i have the rod the correct way round according to the manual and the crank pin looks good unless it has gone oval? i dont have any measuring gear to check so not sure what to do next. This bike is fighting me all the way!
Love the 500 and 550 have a 500 called Lazarus under restoration

Online McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 6122
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #79 on: July 31, 2022, 01:08:56 PM »
When I had a high spot on a  conrod after fitting my casings together it turned out to be oxidation / oil tarnish on the bare con rod. Cleaned them up using a light rub with Duraglit.

Were your conrods nice & clean where the shells sit?  The tolerances are very close on these Hondas.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2022, 01:15:29 PM by McCabe-Thiele (Ted) »
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline mickwinf

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 1737
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #80 on: July 31, 2022, 01:41:21 PM »
The bare rods seemed ok but will check. Interestingly, i was very careful to put the rod caps on the correct way round as per the manual, with the notch on the shell to the exhaust side of the engine and the markings on the side of the rods lined up. I removed the offending rod and re-assembled on the bench and the ends of the shells even by eye looked un even. I put it back on the engine and turned the cap round the "wrong" way, and hey presto a smooth turning rod. What do i do now, was it a fault from new? should i get another rod?
Love the 500 and 550 have a 500 called Lazarus under restoration

Online McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 6122
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #81 on: July 31, 2022, 02:48:09 PM »
The bare rods seemed ok but will check. Interestingly, i was very careful to put the rod caps on the correct way round as per the manual, with the notch on the shell to the exhaust side of the engine and the markings on the side of the rods lined up. I removed the offending rod and re-assembled on the bench and the ends of the shells even by eye looked un even. I put it back on the engine and turned the cap round the "wrong" way, and hey presto a smooth turning rod. What do i do now, was it a fault from new? should i get another rod?

IIRC my 400 has the notches on the same side that has always seemed odd to me but I went by the manual & the original fittment.

Have you Plasigauged the bearing in question?

Not sure if its a tad tight on the bearing size or you have some ovalation on the conrod. I guess accurate measurement is needed.
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline Oddjob

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 4296
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #82 on: July 31, 2022, 03:12:21 PM »
Not sure if you've done this Mick but it's something you should know about.

Got 2 550 engines earlier this week. Both minus gearboxes and essentially just cases, cranks and primary drive. The clutches were also there but seperate as were the generators etc.

One set of cases still had the barrels on, fins chipped to hell and back, I presumed that the barrels were bonded to the cases so made plans to remove them. Couple of hefty whacks with a rubber hammer and up they popped, some wiggling (and this was them in a large crate in the back of my car) and eventually the barrels came off. Good news I thought except I now noticed that number 2 rod was seized, removed the psitons, top case off (no bolts were fitted) and turned the crank around until I could access the 2 rod bolts. Removed the nuts and split the rod, the oil gallery in the crank feeding that journal was completely blocked with solid white powder, the crank still looked ok, the shells weren't marked but they were contaminated. I got the powder out by just sliding a 3mm drill down and spinning it by hand. I can't think what caused this, it could be water ingress or condensation or something else. I may remove the ball bearings capping the internal oil galleries and running a 3.5mm drill down them or I may try and see if a bottle brush and some brake cleaner will do the trick.

So check the oil gallery opening on that journal, maybe there's a small amount of stuff just sticking up and that's catching the shell, if you've tried yellow and it's still sticking it's not a shell selection issue. Check the rod journal surface for any dents that would reduce the clearance.

Have you tried another rod on that journal?
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Offline mickwinf

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 1737
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #83 on: July 31, 2022, 04:10:52 PM »
Interesting you should say that Ted, all the cars i worked on had the notches on opposite sides, but as you say honda says both pointing forward, and there are witness marks on the rods and caps, except the one in question which seems to have always been fitted the opposite way round. Ken, all the oilways were clear and i have cleaned them all again. I have fitted it with green shells now and all turns smoothly, another one tightened up when i torqued it up but fitted the yellow shells and now ok, so i will mate the crankcases and go from there.
Love the 500 and 550 have a 500 called Lazarus under restoration

Offline Bryanj

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 10693
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #84 on: July 31, 2022, 05:07:55 PM »
Yes the japanese apear to differ in that notches are on same side, 400 manual also says notches to front of engine but not seen anything in 500/550 manual

Offline mickwinf

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 1737
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #85 on: July 31, 2022, 05:22:38 PM »
Hi Bryan i got the info from Honda manual page 50.
Love the 500 and 550 have a 500 called Lazarus under restoration

Offline Bryanj

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 10693
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #86 on: July 31, 2022, 06:44:22 PM »
I will have to re read it, if you downloaded it from here its mine anyway!

Offline Bryanj

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 10693
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #87 on: July 31, 2022, 06:49:00 PM »
Perfectly correct but it was 20 yrs ago i scanned it, i just build the 500 on autopilot now!

Offline mickwinf

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 1737
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #88 on: August 08, 2022, 11:35:49 AM »
Lazarus is still fighting me, I took his barrels to get Triggers expert opinion and they were deemed beyond repair. Luckily Graham had a set that can be reconditioned so hope that's another step forward. The crankcases are back together now so next step is replacing the gearchange mechanism and clutch etc. It is getting expensive now, hope i dont have to sell my 550 to pay for it!
Love the 500 and 550 have a 500 called Lazarus under restoration

Offline Laverdaroo

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 3407
    • View Profile
Re: The rebirth of Lazarus
« Reply #89 on: August 08, 2022, 11:40:45 AM »
Holy Sh*t balls Batman..................dont do That!!!!
Mornings are the invention of the devil!

1977 CB550F (current money pit!!)
2002 VFR800 VTEC (The Beloved)
1977 CB400F (the last money pit!)
1998 Ducati 748\853 conversion(sold :()
1980 ish CB750KZ in a billion bits (need to get rid, anybody want one?))

 

SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal