Author Topic: Welded Cush Drive?!  (Read 593 times)

Offline Raygun

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Welded Cush Drive?!
« on: November 18, 2021, 09:47:45 AM »
I have myself some beautiful looking Lester Mag wheels- however on inspection the rear appears to have the cush rubbers removed and the hub welded to the sprocket carrier?

Does anyone know why someone might of done this? It can't be an easy thing to weld so hardly by accident, I imagine. This also raises some issues with replacing my rear wheel bearings...

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R

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: Welded Cush Drive?!
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2021, 01:59:50 PM »
Could the wheel have been made that way - like you say the welding ain't easy?
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Offline K2-K6

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Re: Welded Cush Drive?!
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2021, 02:00:27 PM »
A bit strange, and certainly for a road bike, on which you'd expect to have a cush.

Racing I could see the potential to modify as some would use no or very very litte cush effect to give direct response to input. But it would normally be at the expense of chain and sprocket life which they'd probably be willing to accept.

There's one in the primary drive to catch engine vibrations and prevent onward travel into further transmission.  Then this one that allows the next stage to run vibrations separate from being directly constrained by the tire on the road. Technically it'll work as the peripheral weld should easily take the torque,  but at the expense of component lifing and added harshness to the rider.

Offline Raygun

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Re: Welded Cush Drive?!
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2021, 02:34:16 PM »
A bit strange, and certainly for a road bike, on which you'd expect to have a cush.

Racing I could see the potential to modify as some would use no or very very litte cush effect to give direct response to input. But it would normally be at the expense of chain and sprocket life which they'd probably be willing to accept.

There's one in the primary drive to catch engine vibrations and prevent onward travel into further transmission.  Then this one that allows the next stage to run vibrations separate from being directly constrained by the tire on the road. Technically it'll work as the peripheral weld should easily take the torque,  but at the expense of component lifing and added harshness to the rider.

That's some really great information, thank you for sharing. It seems like, in that case, using this wheel won't kill my transmission whilst I potentially seek out some new wheels.

I'll share some photos tomorrow when I'm working on the bike. The welds are reasonably neat so in response to Ted: I had originally thought this is how the wheels came, until my local tyre shop didn't want to fit tyres to these wheels in the first place.

R

Offline Bryanj

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Re: Welded Cush Drive?!
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2021, 03:57:34 PM »
I think i have a lester rear in my stash, i will look it out if you wish and check it over. Pics of yours would be good to compare to.
As its a lone wheel dontwant a fortune but dont expect it to be free and carriage would be not cheap

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Welded Cush Drive?!
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2021, 09:31:56 PM »
Lester wheels use the same setup as normal wire wheels, mines apart at the moment.

Can you not just cut or grind the welding off?
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Offline Raygun

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Re: Welded Cush Drive?!
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2021, 10:06:01 AM »
See some pictures! Hopefully this helps. I'll take the brake plate off and take some photos from the other side too.

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Oddjob- I haven't yet as it is a bit daunting getting it right.

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Welded Cush Drive?!
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2021, 02:31:38 PM »
They didn't want that to come off did they  :D

Realistically, that's most likely a lathe job to remove it in decently competent fashion, would involve machining it such that it would probably scrap the hub if the wheel takes priority in which part to save.

Not a difficult job for a turner with lathe that would take the diameter (or a gap bed lathe on which part of the bed can be removed in front of the chuck to allow the wheel space to spin) then it's a fairly small job to complete.

Offline matthewmosse

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Re: Welded Cush Drive?!
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2021, 12:03:54 AM »
Yes, looks like either the hub or the sprocket carrier is gonna get a bit too small when removing that assembly, possibly a carefully ground hss parting tool might seperate the 2 with a 2mm gap say, possibly less if there was a tapered cut. If you can un lace the spokes it can be done on a fairly modest  sized lathe and then the wheel rebuilt afterwards  - that was the approach I used to re line a cracked drum brake. I've not yet completed fitting a big chuck to my gap bed lathe to be able to spin a complete wheel on there.... I'm sure any engineering firm with a large lathe could get those appart - but quite likely the sprocket carrier would be the bit you'd choose to have reduced ( possibly beyond useable ) I'd geuss. It could probably have a big o ring squashed into the gap with a recess made if a replacement wasn't forthcoming, not a pretty repair, but probably enough to keep dirt out.
Got a 500/4 with rust and a sidecar and loadsa bits. nice and original and been round the clock

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Welded Cush Drive?!
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2021, 10:28:01 AM »
It's a Lester cast wheel so no possibility to strip it of spokes.

Agree about turning with thin parting tool. If it had the bulk of welding bead machined off first to restore both component's edge form, then you could probably get a thin parting tool straight in on the face toward wheel centre leaving the wheel casting at full thickness and see what you get with the hub.

From the lack of weld penetration there, it looks like the two components are substantially still intact underneath.

Offline matthewmosse

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Re: Welded Cush Drive?!
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2021, 09:27:22 PM »
Ah, lost track of the cast alloy factor in the thread, yeah, gap bed or big lathe. Is the guy in huddersfield still trading? I think I'd heard hed retired.... pity. He was well priced and knew what he was about and had the right kit.
Got a 500/4 with rust and a sidecar and loadsa bits. nice and original and been round the clock

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: Welded Cush Drive?!
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2021, 09:58:16 AM »
Daft idea but could you not just leave it as it is or is there too much risk to your other driveline parts?
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Offline Bryanj

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Re: Welded Cush Drive?!
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2021, 10:07:38 AM »
Without the cush bit it will eat chains and put extra stress on the transmission

Offline sye

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Re: Welded Cush Drive?!
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2021, 12:37:30 PM »
Why would anyone do that in the first place? Is it damaged beyond repair inside?

I think I would replace it rather than go to the trouble of separating the two as there's no guarantee that it would be usable.

Offline matthewmosse

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Re: Welded Cush Drive?!
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2021, 01:19:43 AM »
No knowing why someone did that, might be as simple as the rubbers were worn out or missing and replacements weren't available or when needed the owner just couldn't be bothered but could weld, or it might be a right mess in there. With rear wheels of most descriptions for the cb550 being a bit thin on the ground its probably worth trying to correct it, but if it were me I'd be just as tempted to search out alternative wheels, cb650 costars fit without messing around as I recall, and when I last looked were a bit more affordable, finding just a rear alloy to match what is there would require luck. I'd be reluctant to run with it as it is, vibration can be destructive, at least I wouldn't want to ride hard without some damping in place, though many newer Hondas just use a rubber bush on the studs that carry the sprocket, not sure if the picture isn't loading properly or just not showing the studs to hold a sprocket in place, I don't suppose they modified it to have rubber bushed studs like on newer Hondas? Still leaves potential pitfalls changing bearings- that said I've  done massive mileage with a sidecar adding loading and have yet to need new rear wheel bearings, plenty of fronts been fitted over the years, not rests though.
Got a 500/4 with rust and a sidecar and loadsa bits. nice and original and been round the clock

 

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