Electronic ignition

[deltarider]

"As said, I've abandoned the heatfins, which are an exaggeration IMO and have used the bottom and the lid of the alu box to let the power transistors dissipate their heat."
 From your post #100 there will always be a byproduct, however the size of it manifests. It may be less or more at any one point in a system (denoting efficiency of that system relative to another) but it won't go away.

I have reserved one of my heatsinks for when my rectifier would die and I'd had to make a new one with a Schottky diode:

[...] this looks like a nice tinkerjob for the winter months ahead anyway. I mean, isn't this what we all want for our world: less heat? I even might make one myself and use the heatsink that came with the Velleman K2543 kit (electronic transistor ignition). I have never needed that heatsink as I used an alloy box and its lid to cool my Darlingtons. What do you think? It's the finned black alu part on top. It measures 70X35 mm.

[deltarider]

Back then, I had no choice than to make my own. All products that I had seen (Piranha, etc) were not to my liking. For my travels I wanted something robust with a guaranteed simple back up, other than eventually having to apply for a new black box in farawaygistan and then possibly having to wait days for the thing to arrive. In particular I didn't like the positioning of the electronics. Mine are high and dry - I can cross a stream with it - and they see no higher temperature than ambient. They are shielded against vibrations and moisture. And there's the joy of making the thing yourself ofcourse.

Curios about the logic here. Starting with a Honda system that was effectively peerless when contemporary,  placing another whole system to be more reliable?  with the original as backup,  appears inverted in straight mechanical logic. Backup contingency would surely be two sets of points and two condenser stored on the bike perhaps (maybe in the headlight shell to be always available) and you'd never be stranded such that requirements of outside assistance is necessary.

I get that the electronic systems can reduce the duty load of the original points, but many of these in period additions where constructed and sold on attributes that will definitely improve a number of elements on car distributor systems that never existed in the Honda 4 cylinder ignition systems in the first place.

Have you seen the graph of the rise time?* For a good comparison I'd welcome such a graph of a 100% OEM system, if only to check if my claim is valid.
* Note: this one depicts the rise time with a 3Ω coil.

[deltarider]

[...] Sorry, I said I would zip it but couldn't resist.

Don't worry, Roy. This thread is just getting on steam. Besides, I have this funny feeling the zip wasn't meant for you. Could it be a self portrait of Ash at the dentist?

[K2-K6]

You are correct about the saturation and switch time. It then depends of what happens at output which hasn't yet been discussed.

The car system referred to above is for a V8 with distributor,  it uses a 0.8ohm coil as it doesn't effectively have a "dwell" geometry in purist sense. Switched only electronically it has a fix (time only) saturation which remains constant right through the rpm operating range. Meaning they can optimise the coil irrespective of the range the engine operates, and so coil is always at ideal. That's one advantage that electronic may be able to count as definite.

[deltarider]

I agree with all of you folks, that the difference is marginal. Actually I have stressed this already in 2007 in the international site. It was my reaction to a bit too much advertising imo. I warned already then not to have too high expectations and that the renewal of sparkplugs may give an even more noticable effect. The ignition using a transisor will have more reserve though: I do have a slightly better idle and from 6.500 rpm on the bike accelerates faster towards red zone than with OEM. I have been far in the red, where stock couldn't come. Costwise it has been a good investment: total cost was less than half a contactbreaker.

[Sesman]

I think it’s all been said. IMHO this topic has been very satisfactory raising some interesting technical topics, diverse opinions and humour.

Dare I suggest we now close out and wait an entry in the projects forum?

[AshimotoK0]

The zip by the way wasn't intended for anyone but ME  .. it was a self-imposed gagging order on myself to call it a day not bore the pants off most people.

With Sesman I am designing our own system with the most modern components I can get hold of  and also, which are not at the end of production or obsolete and as miniaturised as possible. This will be detailed in Anorak's corner, where I  (we) won't bore the pants off anyone, who is not particularly interested. That section on here was introduced on here , at my request,  by SteveD,  who kindly gave me admin rights,  to discuss in-depth. techy issues.

[Johnwebley]

ASH,

you NEVER bore, I am just in awe of your knowledge,

Keep it going


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[deltarider]

The zip by the way wasn't intended for anyone but ME  .. it was a self-imposed gagging order on myself to call it a day not bore the pants off most people.

With Sesman I am designing our own system with the most modern components I can get hold of  and also, which are not at the end of production or obsolete and as miniaturised as possible. This will be detailed in Anorak's corner, where I  (we) won't bore the pants off anyone, who is not particularly interested. That section on here was introduced on here , at my request,  by SteveD,  who kindly gave me admin rights,  to discuss in-depth. techy issues.

Bravo!

[Oddjob]

I'm bored, can we talk about boobs please.

[royhall]

As I'm a fan of electronic ignition can I be your first beta test customer. I have a new CB750 project waiting.

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[K2-K6]

I too like your input Ash, and most discussion on these bikes can generate in depth technical response, or have the potential to, simply because there was so much R&D deployed by Honda in bringing such resolved products to market in the first place.

Ordinarily you'd have to get a long way into the detail just to understand what it is you're trying to improve upon, that includes the OP question about use of alternative ignition system to original. 

For those that don't want to read it, there's an easy answer though  but with little action on other threads and this one delivering interest in understanding and debate, then clearly it fits within a forum like this.

[Sesman]

As I'm a fan of electronic ignition can I be your first beta test customer. I have a new CB750 project waiting.

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Push of, I’m the test pilot for Ash. He’s doing all the heavy lifting and clever stuff

[royhall]

Nah your the Alpha tester and development guy. I could be the first paying customer when it goes into Beta.

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[AshimotoK0]

Nah your the Alpha tester and development guy. I could be the first paying customer when it goes into Beta.

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Now now boys .. you can't both test it simultaneously.    I will probably test mine on a purpose built test rig ..with it running continuously at rev's equivalent to 80 MPH in an oven at elevated temperature akin to what it will 'see' on a bike... plus excursions to higher rev's and with it also 'static'  with the points closed condition.
IMHO I  think it needs to be achieved in a package the same size envelope as the B.B. ignition black box if possible. After all Ernie Bransden was electronically switching the same coils/currents way back in the 70's,  in that small package and ... as far as I know .... the black box was pretty reliable. Unless anyone on here has experienced failure.