Author Topic: Electronic ignition  (Read 12755 times)

Offline Johnwebley

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Re: Electronic ignition
« Reply #195 on: January 27, 2022, 07:43:08 AM »
I think the Boyer stator are just 2 coils in series mounted at 180degrees


If it was damaged, I assume you would get no sparks,

I had similar problem a few years ago,

It was a DSS  coil breaking down,
I paid extra for Boyer original style coils, work ok now,



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Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Electronic ignition
« Reply #196 on: January 27, 2022, 08:45:59 AM »
Interestingly, I looked back and John (Webley) got this reply a couple of years back.

Re: Advance curve


Boyer Bransden Electronics Ltd <help@boyerbransden.com>

Thank you for your enquiry, sorry we don't publish this information as we have a few secrets that do give us an edge. You may note  that we fire all cylinders every 180 deg, this requires a little trickery, but it works.

Regards Tech Dept.


Hmm .. not sure they would take kindly to nerds like me de-potting their units to see how they 'tick'... but the Norton bloke obviously did just that  in the late 90's and his findings are  still out there on the net. If they are savvy anyway,  they probably code-protect the chip (s) in their micro-digital version,  so it would be more or less impossible to read the code and copy their system.  Do they still sell a version of their original  'analogue' system?

Here is Ernie Bransdens original patent:  No longer in force after the mid 90's ;)

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search/family/010462758/publication/GB1299853A?q=bransden%20ernest%20ignition



This is a good reference in the link below  from Microchip (a chip manufacturer that I use all of the time)  and one of these days I am going to make an EI based on this app. note.  The one bike which would really benefit from EE  with electronic advance etc. is the CB72/77. Honda mounted the auto-advance in between the two cams halves on this model  and it's notorious for causing problems and very expensive to fix. There is a company in Germany that makes a crank mounted EI system which gets rave reviews but I don't think you get much change from £400 for their system (more than I paid for my bike !)

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00001980C.pdf


« Last Edit: January 27, 2022, 09:10:47 AM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

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Re: Electronic ignition
« Reply #197 on: January 27, 2022, 09:40:18 AM »
Ash, reading that Norton BB post made my head hurt. Shame on you picking on an old man.

 ;D if that one hurt, Ash's next one on microchip ignition will be visible from down here as Ken explodes  :D

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Electronic ignition
« Reply #198 on: January 27, 2022, 11:57:00 AM »
Back to  :-X :-X :-X then sorry  :-[ :-[ :-[
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Electronic ignition
« Reply #199 on: January 27, 2022, 01:07:21 PM »
Green1, have you tried reverting back to points and condensers?

Ash, I have smoke coming out of my ears now, if I self combust I'm blaming you.
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

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Re: Electronic ignition
« Reply #200 on: January 27, 2022, 01:09:36 PM »
 ;D

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Re: Electronic ignition
« Reply #201 on: January 27, 2022, 07:35:36 PM »
Ash "This is a good reference in the link below  from Microchip (a chip manufacturer that I use all of the time)  and one of these days I am going to make an EI based on this app. note.  The one bike which would really benefit from EE  with electronic advance etc. is the CB72/77. Honda mounted the auto-advance in between the two cams halves on this model  and it's notorious for causing problems and very expensive to fix. There is a company in Germany that makes a crank mounted EI system which gets rave reviews but I don't think you get much change from £400 for their system (more than I paid for my bike !)"

Interesting project with mapping etc. Something that has the potential to be interesting,  maybe....... crank triggering we obviously look at conventional type as many are available. But.... did you know that many current or recently made cars make use of tapping off one of the ac fields from alternator windings to give rpm readout in tachometer?  Obviously on a car system with belt drive that's not a defined link to crankshaft,  but it is on bikes though. And so, could that possibly be used to run a full programmed system as reliable timing by running relative delay at various range to give advance retard etc.
They read out at about 7 volts ac on my car, and just goes to tachometer not ECU.

Thinking it originated in diesel as a way to run electronic tachometer but with no ignition pulse present. 

Diesels have mostly moved to crankshaft trigger and monitoring for ECU functionality as they've discarded injection pump timing in favour of pure mapping and injection control.

Offline Dave

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Re: Electronic ignition
« Reply #202 on: January 28, 2022, 10:27:11 AM »
Ash

> ...from Microchip (a chip manufacturer that I use all of the time)

What devices / development tools do you generally use?

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Electronic ignition
« Reply #203 on: January 28, 2022, 03:36:01 PM »
Ash

> ...from Microchip (a chip manufacturer that I use all of the time)

What devices / development tools do you generally use?

We used to programme in assembler the 'C'  but recently  I started using Great Cow Basic for some projects as there is a lot of support online and libraries of routines like graphics drivers etc etc.

For the past twenty years I have used a development board I designed with PIC16F877 and 5 Philips PCF I/O expanders and MAX232 on board RS232 and 'bootstrap' so customer can load code via RS232. but I tried a few of the newer chips a couple of years ago, which have loads more on chip features (like D->A , more advanced A->D and RTC and are amazingly cheap.  Most of my applications are fairly simple though and relatively low speed. I still use a cheapo PicKit2 to program the devices. Great Cow have their own software for it which programmes a lot more up-to-date devices than Microchip intended/supported on it.

Interestingly I used to get my PCB's made near Saltburn ... Think it was a company called Cleveland Circuits. I now use Photronix in Sussex.


Ken ... I am merely answering a members question here ....  before you terminally explode  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 03:39:23 PM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline Johnwebley

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Re: Electronic ignition
« Reply #204 on: January 28, 2022, 04:05:03 PM »
My head hurts!!

But isn't it good to have such expertise on the forum



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Offline Oddjob

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Re: Electronic ignition
« Reply #205 on: January 28, 2022, 05:08:29 PM »
BOOOM!!!!!!!!!!

Too late Ash.
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Offline Dave

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Re: Electronic ignition
« Reply #206 on: January 29, 2022, 08:01:05 AM »
Hi Ash

I'll keep this brief so as not to upset any one!!

Like you, I used Cleveland Circuits many moons ago. I've been programming and using PIC micros for over 20 years now. I'm the author of a compiler called "Swordfish BASIC" - although this is targeted for 18F devices only. I also developed the Firewing development system and IDE and ICD for microEngineering Labs PBP.

If you would like a copy of Swordfish, let me know via PM - it's the least I can do for your support on this forum...

Dave

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Electronic ignition
« Reply #207 on: January 29, 2022, 10:47:51 AM »
Hi Ash

I'll keep this brief so as not to upset any one!!

Like you, I used Cleveland Circuits many moons ago. I've been programming and using PIC micros for over 20 years now. I'm the author of a compiler called "Swordfish BASIC" - although this is targeted for 18F devices only. I also developed the Firewing development system and IDE and ICD for microEngineering Labs PBP.

If you would like a copy of Swordfish, let me know via PM - it's the least I can do for your support on this forum...

Dave

Wow ! impressive PM sent

I notice David Coverdale hails from Saltburn-by-the-Sea but he sure doesn't talk like he comes from there any more  ;D
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 10:53:28 AM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline Sesman

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Re: Electronic ignition
« Reply #208 on: January 29, 2022, 12:38:41 PM »
He does when he’s he’s had a few. I met him in a roof top bar in 57th Street Manhattan.


 

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