Author Topic: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750  (Read 5115 times)

Offline K2-K6

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 5236
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2022, 09:37:31 AM »
Definitely worth getting them riveted as you've done there Ken as it's the primary fail point if done incorrectly.  If someone doesn't have facility to do that, then this offer is very worthwhile.

The plates don't usually fail on chains generally, nearly always a link starts to get loose and release one side to give fail. Pulling tensile load on steel samples like the side plate section, even the std one would probably exceed six tons before getting anywhere near stretching at all, with the straight plates possibly exceeding those. Dealing with the most obvious link with technically correct setting is highly desirable.

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 7360
  • Mad Scientist.... more power Igor ! ٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2022, 10:03:29 AM »
This is my genuine Honda hand  tool for camchains .. I think it was introduced for the Black Bomber CB450

Not used it yet as I had to get a new set of NOS anvils from the States for it (not fitted yet).

Anyone have any experience of using one back in the day?

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline Trigger

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 8434
  • Engines built on reputation, not advertising.
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2022, 10:33:45 AM »
Very useful tool Ash. Good for std DID and OEM Honda chains but, no good on FTH chains as the link pin is a different size. The FST on a std T chain is 160. The upgraded FTH chain is 220   ;)

I remember when the FTH chain first cam out and someone was advertising them for Kwaka Z900's. Many people distroyed there engines as, the cam chain tunnel is too small for this chain.

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 7360
  • Mad Scientist.... more power Igor ! ٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2022, 10:42:03 AM »
I think the tool was actually introduced  in the mid 70's for the CB500T looking at this bulletin  ;)

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline Bryanj

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 10695
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2022, 11:49:30 AM »
There was a bigger tool on the wall at Mead and Tomkinson where i worked, genuine Honda as it matched the shadow board but it screwed down a knife edged "blade" that met the cetre of both pins at once and splayed them out, also had a pin attachmet for pushing pin out

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 7360
  • Mad Scientist.... more power Igor ! ٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2022, 12:18:48 PM »
Is that chain you are talking about like the chain on the left in this pic Ken? (i.e the -971 part) . I intend fitting one to one of my CB250K0's  Basically because I have run out of the standard 'dog-bone'  part (fts CB250/350K/CB750 SOHC).


[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline Oddjob

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 4296
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2022, 05:08:29 PM »
Yeah, looks like it Ash, it's flat sided not dogbone  ;D

As for the genuine Honda tool, nope, never used that tool, I can't ever remember a 500T coming into the workshop TBH, I do remember MOTing one and failing it, the owner came back and once he found out it had failed and the amount needed to get it safe again he sold it to me for £50, I scrapped it and used what parts I could on the 500/550s, the rest got sold on.

The problem with camchains Nigel is that it's a chicken and egg thing, if the engine drops a valve for instance it will usually break a bunch of stuff, the sudden shock usually breaks the camchain and when you take it apart your left wondering what caused this, did the chain break and that's why the valve is bent etc, it's far easier to blame the chain when in fact it could be something else entirely. The tool I'm using is a KTM factory tool, it's really well designed, it's impossible to push the plate onto the rivet link too far as it has a shaped chamber for the plate to sit in, as it goes on the pins protrude until they hit the back of this chamber and then the tool locks up. Same with the peening process, it will go so far and then locks. It's simple to use but your paying for all those design features, at over £75 it's not a cheap tool to buy, especially as your probably only going to use it once.

My thought behind offering this service is so that members can benefit from fitting a heavier duty chain, it may prolong the life of the tensioner blade, it may prolong the intervals between having to fit a new chain and it avoids having members buy a tool that they are only going to use once. That's it, no other motive. I make a small profit, that will go toward paying for the tool, once I break even I will donate a sum for each chain to the site or maybe buy another tool in case this one breaks, who knows, if I sell enough I may be able to keep the site going without members having to pay once a year.
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Offline Sesman

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 2000
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2022, 05:21:35 PM »
 And that my friend is a noble gesture indeed.👏

Offline K2-K6

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 5236
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2022, 10:19:52 PM »
Hopefully you'll get enough interest as that certainly makes a nice job of riveting. 

Russ Collins used to use the straight plate chains in his builds too, for 750 motors.

Offline Oddjob

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 4296
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2022, 12:16:52 AM »
Well folks it appears these 219FTH chains are suitable for the 400-4 so if your after a heavy duty 82 link chain let me know. I'll be happy to cut one down for you.

In the end all sales will help to go toward keeping the site open, it's to all of our benefit to do this, all I'm doing is offering my labour free of charge, I'm not charging for splitting and joining the chain, just for the cost of the tool, the postage and other expenses.

I have 5 confirmed buyers up to now, I'll order the chains when I have 10.
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Offline AshimotoK0

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 7360
  • Mad Scientist.... more power Igor ! ٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2022, 07:35:47 AM »
Hopefully you'll get enough interest as that certainly makes a nice job of riveting. 

Russ Collins used to use the straight plate chains in his builds too, for 750 motors.

I think the Genuine Honda CR750 / CYB350 racing camchain (straight plate) with the -971 suffix was made by RK (will check when I dig one out to use on one of my engines)
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline Oddjob

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 4296
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2022, 03:52:13 PM »
I have ordered the chains, I don't have 10 yet but it's close and the supplier has to order that many in as he only has 2 on the shelf. I'm not making as much as I thought and even that might be less than that if postage onward is more than expected, I've allowed £4 to post on but it may be a bit more. Regardless of that I'll still keep the price the same, I'll need to sell more than 10 to break even but TBH it's not important, if I break even I do, if I don't hey that's not a problem either.

Anyone wants one, please PM me and please say what engine it's for so I know how many links the chain needs to be.

BTW, the chains are 94 links long, which is the size required I think for the CB750K, if you want to buy one for that let me know, same price, you can actually find them cheaper on Ebay BUT this way supports the forum or will do eventually.
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Offline Oddjob

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 4296
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2022, 11:27:29 PM »
Thinking on, the CB750 doesn't need a rivet link as it's already joined by the factory so price reduced on that to £33. That's about 11p more than Ebay cheapest but Ebay doesn't support the forum  :)

I have now got the chains, I'll do them tomorrow and let those who've expressed an interest know by Monday.
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Offline Oddjob

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 4296
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2022, 03:31:14 PM »
Will be cutting chains today, can I ask that PayPal payments are sent as family and friends, the charge incurred if not sort of kill the little I make. Almost £2 for £35.

I'll advise when they are ready to send.
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Offline Oddjob

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 4296
    • View Profile
Re: Heavy duty camchains for the 400/500/550/750
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2022, 07:02:31 PM »
All chains are done. Still got 3 left if anyone still wants one.

The odd thing here is that the chains have already been soft linked, there is just one plate with the DID markings on it, 219FTH on one side and DID on the other, sometimes they got the DID plate in reverse so the writing was on the inside.

Everything went fine, no problems, made a board so that when I spilt the chain I hung it off a nail in the board and the links were marked down the board so no counting needed. A lot of times I took the chain out of the tool, lifted it up to inspect the link to see how it had peened and looked at the wrong link, it was only when I looked at the other side of the link I'd spot this, the tool does an excellent job of riveting them together, I'd say you wouldn't be able to spot it without the markings on the soft link, I reversed all the DID marks so they were inside just to see if I could spot the new link, I couldn't.
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

 

SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal