Author Topic: Charging System Specification  (Read 3295 times)

Offline Oddjob

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 4296
    • View Profile
Re: Charging System Specification
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2022, 02:06:05 PM »
I seem to recall reading that Harleys have greater torque due to the inertia of their flywheel being some big and heavy, which would make sense as it would take more load to slow down such a mass of moving metal, would also explain why they rev so slowly.

So I'd have imagined the same would have happened by removing the mass, it's quicker to speed up but just as quick to slow down. So if the engine is slowing down on a hill faster for example and your needing to change down to keep up speed then that's the same as having less torque?
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Offline Sesman

  • SOHC Master
  • Posts: 2000
    • View Profile
Re: Charging System Specification
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2022, 02:09:51 PM »
I wonder how they justify a 3-5 Hp increase when the alternator output increase is only say 100w. The hp increase could only be realised, generally, by fewer gross losses or increased rpm?

Offline Oddjob

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 4296
    • View Profile
Re: Charging System Specification
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2022, 02:17:51 PM »
IIRC a 500/550 alt only produces 150w so the Electrex alt doubles the output. I'm wondering if the 12a battery can cope with that or whether fitting a higher ampage per hour battery of the same dimensions would be better.
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Online K2-K6

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 5279
    • View Profile
Re: Charging System Specification
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2022, 02:46:28 PM »
IIRC a 500/550 alt only produces 150w so the Electrex alt doubles the output. I'm wondering if the 12a battery can cope with that or whether fitting a higher ampage per hour battery of the same dimensions would be better.

One is a store (battery) one is a production line (alternator) that obviously do different things. If you can run all demand out of a bigger store, within the capacity of that store, then you'll not run out of power. Likely that's never going to be the case though. Racers may do this though and tun without power generation.

You could almost get away no battery-ish though, as with enough output from alternator will run everything continuously. Just couldn't start with electric though.

Online K2-K6

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 5279
    • View Profile
Re: Charging System Specification
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2022, 02:56:02 PM »
I wonder how they justify a 3-5 Hp increase when the alternator output increase is only say 100w. The hp increase could only be realised, generally, by fewer gross losses or increased rpm?

I don't see that either, at full output it should be consuming more torque to give that output.

The torque peak is essentially controlled by camshaft timing, ie optimised flow dynamics to fill the chamber and make the most productive burn to push the piston down.

Offline philward

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 2799
    • View Profile
Re: Charging System Specification
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2022, 03:41:17 PM »
Not done huge miles and not revved to redline yet as still in run in period but throttle response compared to my 750k2 (that is physically standard but also has the same big bore kit fitted) is 'quicker'. If you look at that video I posted, you can see it to some extent when revving in neutral. Can't judge increased power in real terms as not rode a standard 750. Both mine seem reasonably torqey at lower revs which may be the big bore kit.
This may be due to the motor not having to drag the weight of the original rotor?
Current Bikes:-
Honda CB750K2 (1975)
Honda CB500K2 (12/1972)
Honda CR750 Replica (1972)
Honda CB350K0 (1969)
Kawasaki ZZR1100D3 (1995)
Kawasaki ZZR250 (1990) Project (Going on eBay ASAP)

Offline westfieldandy

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
    • good-bits
Re: Charging System Specification
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2023, 05:12:02 PM »
Came across phils post which prompted me to try and give an understanding of the generator I sell.

I use the winding and moffset reg/rectifier that is also sold by electrex in their race alternator kit.  The advantage is that the rotor is very small, which gives very low crankshaft inertia, no flywheel effect. ideal for us racers.

there is always a compromise though,  the magnets in the rotor rotate past the stationary winding, to generate electricity, basically the faster the magnets pass the winding the more electricity is created, but because the rotor/magnets are on a very small dia, it means they pass the windings at a much slower speed for a given rpm. compared to a normal motorcycle generator alternator.  (ie inside of a wheel rotates slower than the outside)

this is ok on my race bikes as I am not sitting about much and the bike is sat at high rpm most of the time, 

and it works really well as the bike has no starter either,  so does not drain the battery starting.

My big mistake was re-designing the special cover to allow use of starter motor,  I have found that people think they ride their cafe racers on the road and think they will not be using lights and because they ride fast they will be revving high a lot of the time.

But I think the reality is that when you use the starter to fire up the bike you tend to use a lot of the battery capacity, and so putting back the charge used will need a good high rpm run without interuption to replenish charge.

for example, I had a customer bike fitted with my latest kit, with starter etc and my low profile cover and generator,  I have been setting suspension and been bedding brakes in and doing runs between villages before handing over build, and I have found that general pottering about with squirts up dual cariageways etc stopping to fill with fuel etc just was'nt enough. the bike cruised along lovely, but generally speaking probably half the time it was running below the 3500 rpm minimum needed to put some charge back etc.

the bike would always start on kickstart, but the electric start would begin to struggle.

Its not the reg/rectifier that causes this,   and the race reg/rectifier will not be suitable for a std honda system either.

hope this helps,   the covers are expensive to make and coupled with the rest of the kit its a big spend,  but saves that hole in the side of fairing, and saves you clouting the ground with the stock engine cover.

 

SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal