Author Topic: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?  (Read 2607 times)

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 6118
    • View Profile
Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« on: April 19, 2022, 05:14:57 PM »
Now that I have the bike running I need to be sure that the battery is being charged by the alternator before I take her any distance for a run. I guess the ignition light going out is pretty meaningless on a bike.

Is there an easy way to test if charge is going into the battery without too much complicated stuff - the charging system is a standard original wiring layout with the original silicone recifier & pointless regulator I think its called?

Neither unit has been replaced by me.
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Online K2-K6

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 5232
    • View Profile
Re: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2022, 05:45:49 PM »
Yes, voltmeter on battery terminals, check before starting (should be about 12.3~12.9v) then started it should climb to about 13.95v ish volts by 3~4000 rpm.
 Job done, if it doesn't climb above original volts, nothing is happening.

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 6118
    • View Profile
Re: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2022, 05:56:16 PM »
Yes, voltmeter on battery terminals, check before starting (should be about 12.3~12.9v) then started it should climb to about 13.95v ish volts by 3~4000 rpm.
 Job done, if it doesn't climb above original volts, nothing is happening.

I'll try that and see what happens - what's the first suspect I guess  it the Regulator that DS do not have most likely to have rusted away internally like my flasher unit?
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline Johnwebley

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 3204
    • View Profile
Re: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2022, 05:56:46 PM »
If you haven't got a  meter,

Run the bike in a dark place, turn on the main beam,slowly increase the revs, lights should brighten until about 2,000rpm when they dim slightly as the regulator kicks in.

If you hold the front brake on as well, the stop lamp will do the same.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

lifelong motorcycle rider,and fan

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 6118
    • View Profile
Re: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2022, 06:15:57 PM »
If you haven't got a  meter,

Run the bike in a dark place, turn on the main beam,slowly increase the revs, lights should brighten until about 2,000rpm when they dim slightly as the regulator kicks in.

If you hold the front brake on as well, the stop lamp will do the same.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

Worth a try except I have LED bulbs so might not work - I have an AVO meter but tbh the owner is pretty unaware of what it can do.I can pretty much only test AC & DC voltage the rest is a mystery to me.
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline Johnwebley

  • SOHC Jedi
  • Posts: 3204
    • View Profile
Re: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2022, 06:22:06 PM »
Are all the bulbs LED?

Yes, it will make it tricky

Set your meter to DC,and 0-20v

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

lifelong motorcycle rider,and fan

Offline smoothoperator

  • SOHC Expert
  • Posts: 299
    • View Profile
Re: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2022, 07:47:13 PM »
As ever Ted I am following your lead. I've done 90 miles now and only just started to think about charging. I have a new Motobatt so it would probably cover that mileage without a charge. When fully charged it measures over 13 volts, can't remember the exact figure. Checked today and it is at 12.4 volts so I will need to keep an eye on it and do the voltage test when running tomorrow. I'm guessing you have a new battery too.
Steve
2017 Triumph Bonneville T100
1977 Honda 400 Four Restored April 2022

Offline Bryanj

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 10692
    • View Profile
Re: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2022, 07:54:29 PM »
Set dc volts 0-20 range, if meter goes up when engine running chances are all ok. Regulators can fail but are pretty bomproof normaly, rectifiers hate bad connections and reversed battery.
1 Check volts turned off with kill switch off
2 Check volts turned on with kill switch of
3 Check volts turned on with kill switch on

Should drop a bit for condition 2 and more for 3
When running should increase till about 3,000 rpm but not go over 14.5 ish, 15.5 ok on lead agid or agm but not lithium battery

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 6118
    • View Profile
Re: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2022, 01:13:30 AM »
As ever Ted I am following your lead. I've done 90 miles now and only just started to think about charging. I have a new Motobatt so it would probably cover that mileage without a charge. When fully charged it measures over 13 volts, can't remember the exact figure. Checked today and it is at 12.4 volts so I will need to keep an eye on it and do the voltage test when running tomorrow. I'm guessing you have a new battery too.

The bike came with a new dry charged battery I think it's called I just added the battery acid that came in the box - left on slow charge, it seems to crank the engine over no problem with nice bright lights. I have no idea how long the PO had the battery for before I bought the bike. At present I have left the battery on charge  with my C-Tek unit so will do some checks in the morning. If it's not raining I will have a short ride round the housing estate at the back of us. I've been swatting up in my Cycleserve Honda CB400F Servicing Manual P75-81 reads like a comprehensive guide to the charging System & its components.

I'm confident that with the help of members here I will sort it if its not working as it should. Like checking the valve timing I might not grasp what I am told immediately (Thanks again Bryanj for your help)  but I am not afraid to sound dim during the learning process.
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 6118
    • View Profile
Re: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2022, 12:33:51 PM »
So definitely not charging.
Battery voltage with ignition off is 12.94 volts (taken off charge at 1.00 am this morning).
Ignition On Run switch Off 12.46 volts.
Iginition On Run switch On 12.08 volts.

When engine is running voltage is 12.23 volts it does not alter if engine revs go to 5k no change at all - not a flicker of increase.
So system is not charging at all.

Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline Bryanj

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 10692
    • View Profile
Re: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2022, 01:14:45 PM »
At the regulator connect the black and white wire and see if charge rate goes up

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 6118
    • View Profile
Re: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2022, 02:46:24 PM »
At the regulator connect the black and white wire and see if charge rate goes up

When you say connect them do you mean attach a bridge wire and see if the voltage changes across the battery?
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline Bryanj

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 10692
    • View Profile
Re: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2022, 04:41:12 PM »
Yes mate, that should put full battery voltage to field coil and give max generator output

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 6118
    • View Profile
Re: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2022, 06:21:23 PM »
Yes mate, that should put full battery voltage to field coil and give max generator output

I will give that a go in the morning.
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

  • Grogu
  • *
  • Posts: 6118
    • View Profile
Re: Is there an easy way to test for charging ?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2022, 11:13:50 AM »
Well this morning before I started with Bryanj's advice at the forefront I decided it might be safer to remove the voltage regulator from it's mounting to carry out the bridge test.
I disconnected the device to check how clean the brass spades were on the unit when I noticed they are marked E, F & I. At this point I looked at the casing markings and realised the
 cover was on the wrong way round effectively  inverting the connections E & I just the white field connection was correct.

I looked at some members photos I have showing that the regulator case should have the colours showing when in position not at the back of the unit. I reversed the casing cover so now the markings on the case match those on terminalls effectively reversing the top & bottom connections. ( Now thinking what could have burnt out as a result) I should have blamed the PO but the truth is out now.

Fired up the bike and she is happily turning out over 14.2 volts at higher revs - so confession time I think I put the cover on back to front when I spruced up the base with some zinc primer so as it turns out a bit of an own goal. As a bonus the loom spur with the three wires sits more comfortably the right way up!

When the day has warmed up some more might have another ride hopefully using more than first gear - gear shift foot lever repositioned on the splines yesterday.

(Note to self the circlip on the shaft need replacing it's spring action has sprung)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 11:35:41 AM by McCabe-Thiele (Ted) »
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

 

SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal