Author Topic: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm  (Read 909 times)

Offline Oggers

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Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« on: April 24, 2022, 04:00:10 PM »
Not a Honda - but I feel you gents may be able to point me in right direction as the solution may be similar for CBs . I have another bike - 78 Kawasaki KZ650 - which has performed wonderfully since restoration a year or so ago. I took it out on Friday and it ran beautifully. Saturday took it out on another spin, but this time filled it up with super unleaded as normal. After that, bike rans fine until you give it some throttle at @ 4500 rpm and it hesitates - somewhat alarmingly lurching as it does so. It tries to go, but hestitates again. Very erratic, very hesistant, will not go above 4500. Below 4500 it seems OK - ish....

Clearly I have though about rubbish in the tank being disturbed when filling up, and then finding its way to the carbs. I took the tank filter off - very clean, and the extra in-line filter between petcock and carbs looks fine and clean. Cleaned plugs - all OK, checked gap - OK, cleaned air screw needles - all OK, fuel line blown through, vacuum take off to petcock is OK, Auto advance lubed up, all seems free moving.

Taking the carbs off and cleaning jets etc. is a royal pain. Has anyone got any other suggestions that I could easily do, and do you feel I am on the right track with the root cause? - rubbish in the carbs bascially. Deeply annoying after it was running so well!

Online K2-K6

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Re: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2022, 07:59:07 PM »
Can you give it just a little choke as it hesitates at 4500 rpm ? It's just to see if being a little richer can alllow it to increase revs and give a pointer as to what it's doing.
If it doesn't help, it's possibly not fuel.

Online K2-K6

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Re: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2022, 08:46:50 PM »
Another thought about this, someone here had a pattern, I think, fuel tap on a Kawasaki that was restricting the fuel flow such that it wouldn't rev as carb float bowls depleted level during a run.

Worthwhile checking for straight flow from the tank into a pot to see what you have there.

Offline Lobo

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Re: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2022, 10:50:02 PM »
I’d have thought (significant) carbs issues would appear gradually over time given your filters are clean. And given the problem has appeared in an instant, surely more likely something obvious…. Plugs, coils, condenser, faulty power supply to the coils etc (if not fuel supply.)

Certainly I wouldn’t be taking the bloody carbs off until all the obvious ruled out.

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2022, 01:42:42 AM »
Have you checked the fuel cap vent is unblocked?
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Offline Laverda Dave

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Re: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2022, 10:06:21 AM »
Six months ago I bought 5 litres of super unleaded from my local BP  in a nearly new jerry can. When I poured it into the empty fuel tank of the bike it wouldn't run. The fuel was off when I checked it, full of water and bits floating about. The petrol station was selling dodgy fuel, the jerry can was nearly new and absolutely clean as was the fuel tank, no rust or debris inside as it had been resprayed and rinsed prior to fitting the fuel taps.
I wrote to BP who said they would check the fuel at the independent petrol station even though it was fully branded as BP. I called the petrol station and they put the phone down on me. When I checked Google reviews others had suffered the same.
It's odd that your bike started playing up as soon as you put new fuel in, I would say that is the culprit.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 10:08:19 AM by Laverda Dave »
1976 Honda 400/4
1981 Honda CB250RSA
1977 Rickman Honda CR750
1999 Honda VFR 800FX
1955 750 Dresda Triton
1978 Moto Morini 350 Sport
1982 Laverda 120 Jota
1924 Triumph 550SD
2012 Stanley Battery Drill

Offline Oggers

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Re: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2022, 10:24:34 AM »
Dave

I am beginning to think the same way. No idea why it should be so as I used super unleaded from the same spot beforehand and all was well. Mind that was some time ago. I'll drain the tank and fill afresh - from another petrol station!


Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2022, 12:12:24 PM »
Dave

I am beginning to think the same way. No idea why it should be so as I used super unleaded from the same spot beforehand and all was well. Mind that was some time ago. I'll drain the tank and fill afresh - from another petrol station!

I deleted my post about the fuel as I did not read the part where it will not rev above 4,500 rpm I read it as a hesitation then it would go on revving.

I agree too much of a coincidence that it goes wrong after fuelling - out of interest what brand fuel was it? 
You might get away with draining the float chambers if you have such a capability unless dirt has got through to the carbs. I use an inline filter as well as the strainer on the tap.

Esso is probably the safest bet this link is a little old but explains the E5 paradox - in the South of the UK Shell & BP SUL is said to be Ethanol free but up North a different story due to the supplying refinery I guess.
https://www.windrushcarstorage.co.uk/blog/the-windrush-guide-to-e5-e10-and-ethanol-free-fuel.php

« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 12:42:27 PM by McCabe-Thiele (Ted) »
Honda CB400 four super sport

Offline Oggers

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Re: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2022, 03:01:06 PM »
It's proving not to be an easy fix. That or I'm going dotty! Filled a clear empty brandy bottle with petrol to test presence of water in fuel - so much more sophisticated than a jam jar I feel! - Nothing settled out. Replaced all fuel with fresh from another petrol station - no joy. Removed the in line filter between petcock and carbs - no joy. Rode it with filler cap open - no joy - Fuel tap all clean...Proving to be very irritating! Any more clues would be greatly appreciated......

Offline Oggers

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Re: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2022, 03:38:56 PM »
ordered condensors......I have a horrible feeling it isn't the fuel....

Offline Laverda Dave

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Re: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2022, 10:34:30 PM »
Have you checked the timing dynamically, maybe the bob weights are sticking or one of the springs has come off and the weights are not being thrown out to advance the timing. It's a free and easy check.
Also check nothing has come adrift under the tank where the coils are, could be a loose connection. Seems odd it started after you filled up.
I was on an IAM observed ride last Friday when we pulled into a petrol station for a feedback chat. When I restarted the bike the indicators didn't work! The fuse was ok as was the wiring and bulbs. I checked the realay and heard it click but still I couldn't find the problem. When I got home I stripped it down and changed out the realay and found it was the culprit. Although I heard it click it had failed inside. A £9 part ended my ride! Strange how things fail when the engine is switched off and then back on again a few minutes later!
1976 Honda 400/4
1981 Honda CB250RSA
1977 Rickman Honda CR750
1999 Honda VFR 800FX
1955 750 Dresda Triton
1978 Moto Morini 350 Sport
1982 Laverda 120 Jota
1924 Triumph 550SD
2012 Stanley Battery Drill

Offline Oggers

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Re: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2022, 09:10:56 AM »
Dave

Yes - I too thought about the ATU not working properly so I sprayed it - behind the contact plate -  with WD40, and also oiled the pivot points - although I must admit I haven't checked it properly as the contact plate fixing screws are a swine to remove!  ATU's don't often go wrong though do they?. I also visually checked the connections around the coils/earth/plus leads - nothing obvious. I did though check the condensors. According to Haynes, if points spark on breaking with the ignition on, then possibly one of the condensors is goosed. One did spark, and reading up, what I am seeing when riding the bike could be symptomatic of a failed condensor.  Condensors now on order.....

I agree that all these things are very odd. One minute it is running fine, very well in fact - the next hopeless, for no obvious reason. Britsh bikes are even worse for this!

Thanks for all the info - all useful stuff. Honda RS progressing - slowly. Bottom end done, barrel back on.       

Offline Bryanj

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Re: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2022, 09:58:38 AM »
New condensers, if not Honda mega expensive ones, have a high failure rate and short life. You may be better using an old one from another points plate to check

Offline Oggers

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Re: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2022, 12:31:53 PM »
Bryan

Understood. It will eliminate condensors as the root cause - or not - at least.

Offline Lobo

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Re: Hesitation after @ 4500 rpm
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2022, 10:54:50 PM »
Can you ascertain whether it’s all cylinders misbehaving…. or 2… or just the one as this might better point you to the root cause.

If poss can you ride it for ‘an extended period’ in the rogue rpm band, hit the kill switch and bring it to a stop. Then have a look at each plug, plus of course tap each exhaust header to compare temps.

 

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