Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.

[Sesman]

Ken, Sesman.

The 40 panels attracted a healthy govt subsidy, we paid $20K for 40 panels. Here in QLD (tho’ not in the UK anymore I believe) there is a useful feed-in tariff, meaning the energy supplier pays us for the surplus energy. It gives us abouts $1000pa back into our hands, ie we never have a bill.
Add to this we’re saving $800 per quarter in ‘no bills’ - or $3000pa.
What all this means is that the panels are ‘cost free’ at the 7 year point, in their 20 year life. We then have 13 years of simple credit…. at todays rates this is getting on for $50k.
And in all the above, I have not factored in the free motoring.

Sesman. Why on earth would you think the firemen could not isolate the PV array?? By law they have to, and on all houses (here anyways) there’s big stickers on the switch box warning them, with an isolation switch inside. We bought a top quality German Fronius Inverter, which I bloody hope will last a lot longer than you suggest!
That said, I suspect we will be updating it at some point, as I’m interested in adding a battery…. which at this point in time, is still not financially viable. But soon…?

Typical payback in the UK is around 20years. We don’t have your sun hours. However using net present value and the financials are much bleaker. Good luck with your inverter, the life is very much dependent on the installation average daily ambient temperature, which’s normally around 20deg C. I’m afraid the DC input and AC output switch disconnectors simply isolate the invertor, the PV is still ‘live’ while it’s receiving light.

[Sesman]

There you go….Zurich insurers report.

https://www.zurich.co.uk/news-and-insight/fire-risks-how-safe-are-solar-panels

[Lobo]

Blimey. I stand corrected wrt UK installations: and can barely believe isolation switches are not mandatory and standardised as to where to find them.
It begs the obvious question as to how a fire brigade, on an especially high and flat roof, can know whether or not a PV array is up there? Nuts.

Ken, I bloody agree wrt feed-in tariff; it’s literally daylight robbery that the energy providers don’t pay the supplier - ie us in this case. I don’t know how they get away with it, and suspect it’ll be here (Oz) soon. Given how keen Boris is on ‘green’ you’d think he’d whip these providers into line to encourage Joe Public to fit arrays.

[Sesman]

I know…it’s crazy. Back in 2014 the German fire brigade adopted a non-attendance and intervention policy for domestic fires involving PV.They simply protected adjacent properties. Zurich even withdrew house insurance for properties with PV….for a while at least. We do have switch disconnectors for the DC input and AC output, but of course the PV is still ‘live’ on the incoming side of the DC switch while the sun shines. Some PV incorporates the inverter on each panel, which incorporates overcurrent protection.

[Oddjob]

Wouldn't spraying foam on the panels cover them so they can't get sunlight?

[Johnny4428]

Blanket of foam really only works on a level surface and a contained area. Like your way of thinking Ken.

[Oddjob]

How about expanding foam, sticks like hell to stuff, I know as it's hard to get it off 

They could have a fire extinguisher full of it, up on a ladder and just spray it onto the roof, plus there are fire retardant types as well.

[Johnny4428]

Nowadays with risk assessments there probably not even allowed up a ladder. We used to walk along ridges and stand on chimney stacks back in the day.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I was shocked when we had a Sky Dish fitted - the bloke was not allowed to attach it on our chimney so he fitted it to a dorma side wall a heady 13 or so feet high - he drilled safety eyes in our wall to secure the ladder & attach a line!
I would climb onto the flat roof then walk up the slope in my trainers to  straddle the roof apex when repacing storm damaged ridge tiles - tbh that was 20 years ago when I could get my leg over the apex without my hip locking up.

[Johnny4428]

I was shocked when we had a Sky Dish fitted - the bloke was not allowed to attach it on our chimney so he fitted it to a dorma side wall a heady 13 or so feet high - he drilled safety eyes in our wall to secure the ladder & attach a line!
I would climb onto the flat roof then walk up the slope in my trainers to  straddle the roof apex when repacing storm damaged ridge tiles - tbh that was 20 years ago when I could get my leg over the apex without my hip locking up.

😂😂😂

[mike the bike]

I did a kitchen refit in a Fire Station and was surprised to find they don't use a pole to slide down, using the stairs instead.  I suggested using a slide, like kids use.  A lot safer than running down the stairs and more fun.

[Lobo]

Back to Ted’s starter topic, the landlord from our local pub, recently had a ride on a demonstrator Live Wire Harley EV. He described it as bloody incredible, with the linear torque just wanting to pull his arms out of their sockets, accompanied by an uncanny lack of noise.

I’ll admit an EV bike intrigues me, and honestly I’d like one when the range becomes a useful 150 miles. I did consider the Harley briefly, but am put off in that it only offers Type 1 or Type 3 charging. The first is extremely slow (via your 13A home socket) and the Type 3 a ‘commercial’ fast charge which homes are unlikely to have.
I’ve Type 2 charging in our house (3 phase wired)…. the HD wouldn’t accept this…. meaning a 12-16 hr wait between rides 🙁.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Back to Ted’s starter topic, the landlord from our local pub, recently had a ride on a demonstrator Live Wire Harley EV. He described it as bloody incredible, with the linear torque just wanting to pull his arms out of their sockets, accompanied by an uncanny lack of noise.

I’ll admit an EV bike intrigues me, and honestly I’d like one when the range becomes a useful 150 miles. I did consider the Harley briefly, but am put off in that it only offers Type 1 or Type 3 charging. The first is extremely slow (via your 13A home socket) and the Type 3 a ‘commercial’ fast charge which homes are unlikely to have.
I’ve Type 2 charging in our house (3 phase wired)…. the HD wouldn’t accept this…. meaning a 12-16 hr wait between rides 🙁.

You have highlighted the lack of uniformity in the production of what are still early days in EV production  - no commonality in charging systems, electric motor or battery voltages.

I suspect that in another 10 years todays EVs will be compared to a Vintage ICE car with  Tiller steering.

[Lobo]

😂 Tiller steering.

It’s not so much lack of uniformity, but rather availability of infrastructure. Homes are generally not wired for the kind of power an EV needs for charging within a reasonable time; even using 3 phase (not common in the UK) we need 5 hrs for our small car (ie Type 2 charging). I agree that I can’t see any kind of future where home superchargers exist (ie 30 mins for a useful charge) - but then again, why would you need that?
I don’t know why HD only offer two rates, tho’ certainly they’ve covered all bases in giving Type 1.

One sobering realisation I muse myself with is that ALL of our 40 solar panels would be needed to power the car down the motorway …. as their combined output and car consumption is approx 13kW! Wow, solar powered cars are going to be a long way off 😂.

[Oddjob]

We'd all be stood at the side of the road with solar cars in the UK, the sun never shines long enough to get anywhere.