Author Topic: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.  (Read 4840 times)

Online McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Having seen the Electric Harley Davidson on TV got me thinking about some of the latest technology in electric motors for transportation.
I am an ICE fan - I cant get excited about washing machine based engines but..................

Currently manufacturers of EV's use radial flux electric motors but a UK engineer Tim Woolmer has developed an existing design using axial flux technology. He has obtained 214 bhp & 266 lb ft of torque from an electric motor weighing just 24 Kg now developed to produce 800Nm of torque.

He is currently working on an in wheel design electric motor - imagine that on a front or rear wheel drive motorcycle. Sadly Mercedes Benz have bought out Yasa so the design might not be available to all. (YASA - Yoke and Segmented Armature).

https://www.yasa.com/

https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-news/front-engined-motorcycles-used-to-be-a-thing-ar192609.html
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 09:38:17 AM by McCabe-Thiele (Ted) »
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Offline K2-K6

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2022, 07:19:32 AM »
Same here Ted, no interest in electric motion bikes from a very simple just liking it perspective. Guess the real problem is so much the energy storage though rather than ultimate motor force etc.

Some really interesting old engines around though. I looked at a Napier Lion W 12 engine in brooklands museum and tried to see how that worked.

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This triple conrod being the key to cylinder arrangement.

It was Napier I believe that originally designed the Deltic diesel engine too

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Quite a engineering feat  :)

Online McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2022, 07:52:03 AM »
I liked the two stroke diesel engine that Commer designed for their early commercials I think it was a horizontal opposed flat 6 cyl? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commer_TS3

« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 08:08:59 AM by McCabe-Thiele (Ted) »
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2022, 08:04:49 AM »
Hazy memories as fairly young when we had Corona delivered by a little lorry that may have had that engine Ted

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Remember it sounded quite cool, more motorcycle than commercial sound, but didn't know what it was then.

Vehicle was a Karrier and part of Rootes/Comma group I can see by searching now.

We had a bottle of lemonade and one other colour, that's two whole bottles for family of five to drink on Sundays, bloody luxury  ;D

Online McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2022, 09:39:34 AM »
Love the schematic model you posted.
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2022, 09:56:32 AM »
Corona cherryade was lovely.
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Offline mike the bike

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2022, 10:17:42 AM »
My mum worked as a wages clerk at Corona and got me a temporary job which lasted 9 months.  I worked on the syrup room making up the ingredients that went into the pop. Something like 3100 litres of sugar syrup, 30 litre artificial flavourings, citric acid (which rotted my bike boots) sodium citrate,  sodium benzoate, E211, E110 etc and made up to 6000 litres with water.  The first pop I ever made was Cherryade, which I'm not a fan of.  The fitters used to come in to the syrup room to scrounge the odd litre of syrup in exchange for a handful of stainless nuts and bolts.  Before long, I had replaced most of the fasteners on my 550four with stainless.  Happy times working there.
Where's that 10mm socket got to?

Offline Johnny4428

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2022, 12:18:16 PM »
My mum worked as a wages clerk at Corona and got me a temporary job which lasted 9 months.  I worked on the syrup room making up the ingredients that went into the pop. Something like 3100 litres of sugar syrup, 30 litre artificial flavourings, citric acid (which rotted my bike boots) sodium citrate,  sodium benzoate, E211, E110 etc and made up to 6000 litres with water.  The first pop I ever made was Cherryade, which I'm not a fan of.  The fitters used to come in to the syrup room to scrounge the odd litre of syrup in exchange for a handful of stainless nuts and bolts.  Before long, I had replaced most of the fasteners on my 550four with stainless.  Happy times working there.
Loving the trade off! Syrup for nuts.😂😂
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Offline K2-K6

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2022, 12:33:01 PM »
Love the schematic model you posted.

Quite a neat representation isn't it, just found it when browsing topic.

Technically a electric vehicle too as all traction was indirect via generating set, using "train petrol" though as energy scource  :)

Offline Lobo

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2022, 12:42:28 PM »
Ted, I’m going to hazard a guess you’ve never driven a modern EV…. and my next guess, that when you do, & if with an open mind, you’ll be blown away.
And have got very excited about it all….

Just this week have seen 2 YouTubes with Clarkson & Hammond driving the Tesla Model X on separate occasions. Both were in absolute awe of the car; Hammond was on the verge of buying. Clarkson’s clip included a 1/4 mile standing start versus an Audi RS8 - which he won.
You’ve got to bear in mind the boggling ICE experience of these guys, and the inescapable fact that they’re petrol heads.

My missus has a BMW i3 - a wee & un-special town car. It does 0-60 in 7 secs, and with no effort, will always be first away from the lights - you just can’t help yourself. No noise, no kerfuffle… it’s almost embarrassing.

A version of the Tesla S is the fastest accel production car at 0-60 in 2.2 secs, and with a claimed range of 400 miles. Even if it’s 300 I’m impressed…

My CB750 engine is currently in multiple ziplock bags and boxes on garage shelving. As an EV owner my mind is sharpened as to just how heavy and unnecessary it all is; so many moving bloody bits. And it doesn’t have turbo chargers, radiators, pumps… crap.
And that Napier design Nige - cunning… but dear god the complexity.

Appreciate this is going to fall mostly on deaf ears, but honestly, EVs are like iPhones to old Nokias; once proper infrastructure is in place we’ll all wonder how ICEs lasted into the 21st century.

(full disclosure - live in a sunny climate with 13kW of solar panels, haven’t had a fuel bill in 3 yrs. Next service is for a Cabin filter change… last service was the wipers 😂)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 12:49:08 PM by Lobo »

Online McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2022, 05:03:06 PM »
I've driven quite a few hybrids when I worked for MB Derby plus a stolen/recovered Milk Float back in  the 1970's when I drove one back to the Co-op depot so you have guessed right I have not driven a modern EV - quite simply they are very expensive and beyond my reach pricewise. I estimate I have 6 years of driving left in me at the most so it's unlikely I will ever own a full EV.

I've been a passenger in a BMW i3 a friend recently bought a used one - the earlier one with a small engine that can charge up the battery as he drives - a range extender is it called - great motor but pricey new.

I was impressed with the way the i3 drove, he had the phone app so he could do all sorts of things on his i-phone with it.
That is a car I could live with but I think they have dropped the range extender option on the newer ones. When his battery fails it's scrap as a replacement is more than the car is presently valued at.

If I was 20 years younger then I would probably have a small SUV on a PLP and forget a lifetime of being a petrolhead. Quite frankly I'm  more concerned about the current policy to ban new gas boilers in 2025.  Hopefully like the switch off of FM to make us go to DAB Radio  it will not happen in my lifetime.

PS I still use a Nokia 6310i as the battery lasts a week on one charge - in my Jeep as an emergency phone!



« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 08:44:43 PM by McCabe-Thiele (Ted) »
Honda CB500 K1 (new pit dug out ready)
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Offline mike the bike

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2022, 06:49:02 PM »
In a previous job I repaired vacuum cleaners.  The lithium batteries in them failed after 4-5 years.  Not too bad with a Dyson,  replacements are £30 but GTech ones are £112.  I had a big bin of duff lithium batteries and looked into recycling them - hopefully for cash.   
They're not recyclable and neither are car batteries.
Where's that 10mm socket got to?

Offline andut

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2022, 08:25:12 PM »
I have to agree with you Lobo !

I’m a petrol head who really appreciates a well engineered powertrain and I wanted to dislike driving an electric vehicle, but the reality is hugely impressive - certainly from a performance delivery perspective.  I recently had the opportunity to borrow a Ford Mach E for a week and whilst it had features I didn’t like, and it’s a style of vehicle that leaves me cold, I had to admit that the instant and effortless torque delivery is something an ICE just can’t compete with.

Charging via the public network was a pita and the range anxiety was definitely real for me in the short time I had the car.  It’s expensive and there are questions about future recycling etc, but honestly, after a week of driving, it’s easy to see how they will very quickly become the norm.


Offline Rozabikes Tim

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2022, 09:17:54 PM »
I remember when I first had a bike in my teens my attitude was I don't want a car.

Passed car test and rode less but always liked revvy engine. Said I would never have a diesel.

Got a diesel when older and loved relaxed grunt for general driving. At the time my wife had a vtec Civic estate 160+ brake / 7k rpm (for a car!). What a nutter machine. Loved driving it as a treat for short blast but too highly strung for general use.

I had a petrol hybrid Toyota courtesy car recently  for a few weeks. Lovely when driving under electric power but engine assistance harsh and an intrusion.

I think as everyday transport I quite look forward to  an electric car. Quiet and easy to drive.

Or am I just getting old?
One day I'll have the time to restore it, not just talk and dream....

Offline Moorey

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2022, 09:28:25 PM »

  Personally I think Evs will go the same way as Betamax with Hydrogen winning out in the end.

 

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