Author Topic: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.  (Read 1477 times)

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2022, 09:39:57 PM »
I have to agree with you Lobo !

I’m a petrol head who really appreciates a well engineered powertrain and I wanted to dislike driving an electric vehicle, but the reality is hugely impressive - certainly from a performance delivery perspective.  I recently had the opportunity to borrow a Ford Mach E for a week and whilst it had features I didn’t like, and it’s a style of vehicle that leaves me cold, I had to admit that the instant and effortless torque delivery is something an ICE just can’t compete with.

Charging via the public network was a pita and the range anxiety was definitely real for me in the short time I had the car.  It’s expensive and there are questions about future recycling etc, but honestly, after a week of driving, it’s easy to see how they will very quickly become the norm.

The price of an EV for Mr Average is still  way too high imho. Ford Mach E great motor  but prices start at £47k to over £65k even on a PLP that's expensive if you are not a higher rate tax payer. Yes EV's will become the norm as new car buyers will eventually have no option as old ICE vehicles will be driven out of  the market by age, high VEL duty & fuel prices. I suspect the days of private car ownership for many will be consigned to history - probably what the Government wants but most cities are not like London in terms of public transport.

Were painfully short of extra electricity generation as it is so with the shift to EV's, the move away from gas heating to electicity dependent heat pumps things are going to get a lot more expensive. Not sure who is funding the charging infrastructure be it at home, workplace or at the re-branded petrol stations or "Energy Stations". We've shut most of our coal fired electricity generation, our old Nuclear Power Stations are getting long in the tooth with new ones bogged down with delays & massive cost overuns. I read somewhere the UK was self sufficient on Wind & Solar generation for one day in a year.

Every cordless power tool I have ever owned has after 4 or 5 years failed or lost it's ability to work the tool - it was cheaper to buy a complete new tool than a new battery when my last drill packed up. I run a 17 year old Jeep I cannot see any electric car having a battery that will last that long. If there was some sort of standard for battery voltage and fitting that might help bring down the cost of a replacement but clearly most manufacturers do their own thing.

There have been quite a few accounts of hybrids suffering from battery failure when out of warranty - costs vary from  £8k upwards to buy a replacement battery! Used EV's  do not look like a good buy when they are 5 years old - the're cheap for a reason.We need to re-think our manufacturing & transport policy as we seem quite happy to ship goods from the other side of the world then have a HGV chugg them up our motorways for items that could be made here in the UK.

This is a party political statement on behalf of the Retired, Grumpy, Old Gits  Party who have never had it so good.


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Offline Laverdaroo

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2022, 09:56:47 PM »
gotta love a Deltic noise,  possibly the best 'fire breathing start up' on any of the fleet that BR ran. My big  brother is 11 years older than me and used to take me down the goods yard and sidings at york on a Saturday morning so he could jot some numbers down as was the craze then and I could be an amazed 6 year old being asked regularly into the cab to work the glow plugs and undertake menial tasks that make a 6 year old freel terribly important. I was probably pressing the window washers  but it made my day every weekend if we were there in time ;D
I remember it was always so dramatic in the winter when the thick smoke would crackle and a 7 foot rod of orange flame would intermittantly leap out of the pipes like two angry snorts from a dragon out into the freezing air, as a young lad, I was totally in awe of the drivers and their space age machines ........As all small boys should be :D
..I was sold, trains were cool but to be fair, that was before my brothers mate, 'Telf'  wheelied his goldwing up passed Coppice Swimming pool to impress the girls and that was it for me, at 12 I had an XL185 or dubias reputation to blat round my mates farm on.  Those were the days!
With the two windows at the front on the Dellie's I always thought they had a happy face but squinted their eyes against the wind ;D ;D ;D
Still get the goose bumps when I hear one take off from the station an the diesel days we go to now and again, those and the warship class locos' and the monsterously powerful class 54's...........awesome!

A remarkable piece of engineering that engine and a hugely powerful one.
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Offline MCTID

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2022, 10:01:39 PM »
My Son in Law owns a Garage which specialises in Fleet Maintenance and up market German Cars.......he's a smart bloke and he's really into Engine Management Systems....he thrives on problems in this field and just loves taking on and solving the difficult jobs that the Main Dealers can't or won't take on because their hourly rates just won't justify what they would need to charge their Customers - for something which should never have been a problem in the first place ! Some Owners have so many major problems that they vow never to buy another BMW, Merc, Audi or Porsche ever again ! It's sometimes that bad.....but I suppose when you have paid 50K + for a swanky car, the very least you expect it to do is to start first time, every time and to run reliably !

He's getting more into Servicing EV's as his bread and butter line is Fleet Cars and Vans, but he just shakes his head when he talks about the cheapness and ease of Hydrogen Powered Vehicles........he's convinced it's just a conspiracy to deliberately hold back the development of Hydrogen Powered Vehicles as there is a lot more money to be made (screwed) out of EV's.
Now: 2007 CB600F, CB750K4. 1970 Bonneville. Various other 1960's 650 Triumph T120's/ TR6's/ TR6C's. Previous: 1976 CB500 Four. BMW F800ST. GS750E. CB1300 (2). ZXR1200S. VFR800. CB750 Nighthawk. CX500. XS500 Yam. Suzuki GT500. BSA A10. Various Lambrettas. Zundapp Bella (honest).

Offline Lobo

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2022, 11:36:42 PM »
It’ll be interesting to see which wins out in the Hydrogen versus battery race. My money’s on batteries; I suspect we’re on the cusp of some amazing electrical storage solutions.

One really exciting plus for battery EVs is the option to reverse power your home… ie the solar charges your car through the day, and your EV powers the house through the night. This is already happening, and in my case would be a great option. Next EV perhaps?

Saw a YouTube on the two technologies; the summation was that Hydrogen powered vehicles were no where near as efficient overall, ie if you factor in the manufacture of Hydrogen, transport, storage… and then conversion to wheels.

I’d have to agree with you MCTID; BMW Dealerships leave a lot to be desired - they really are too far up their own wotsits.  But, our i3, and it’s beautiful engineering leave me well impressed. Again on YouTube, I saw a video of some big newish ICE BMW with an issue… the mechanic spent a day tearing it down to access a wee component within the engine. Horrific, unbelievable… as this mountain of bloody bits slowly grew on his shop floor for a tuppenny part. (Basically, too much motor crammed into too little space.)
You’re son in law is ahead of the game - good stuff. This said, given what I see of the reliability and maintenance of our EV, I do wonder how future service facilities will make a living. I paid the BMW Dealership about £300 for 5 years parts and labour on our i3 - it’s a rip off. I’m learning…. in real life the car simply needs the odd wiper, brake fluid, cabin filter change. Interestingly it’ll likely never need new brake pads as 95% of braking is regenerative.

Mike - the battery is warranted for 8 years, at which point it’s guaranteed not to be below 80% (?) of original storage capability. I’d liken that to petrol engines becoming less efficient with age. To my knowledge, EV Batteries don’t ever fail hard, but rather just slowly get more and more ‘tired’. In difference to (eg) Dyson batteries, they are never ‘fully’ charged / discharged - software management sees to this to prolong longevity. There are plenty of stories around of 8yo EVS still performing very well, with every indication of years left in them. I did once read a proposal that you screw the old battery to your house at the end…. even then it’d far out perform a Tesla Powerwall!


« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 12:44:09 AM by Lobo »

Offline Lobo

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2022, 12:35:06 AM »
I estimate I have 6 years of driving left in me at the most so it's unlikely I will ever own a full EV.

Don’t say that Ted. At 88yo my dad wanted a new Honda Jazz. “Will this be your last car Dad?”, I asked. 
“I don’t know Si… never say never.”

So we went to the dealership, and had a good poke around one; a deal was done & they agreed to deliver it personally a few days later…

The suited salesman duly arrived in the new Jazz, with paperworks in his hand. My dad was on the driveway pop riveting a gazebo, I was in the garage taking the K2 tyre off the wheel, and my sister was covered in grease kindly cleaning the chain. His face was a picture.
My dad, vertically challenged in his old age, asked the salesman whether the seat tracks could be raised? He wasn’t sure. “Well, how many bolts secure it to the floor?”, asked my dad. Again, unsure. Dad wasn’t impressed & got down to have a count / look see… the guy looked embarrassed.
Shortly they began the paperworks, and dad was onto him about the warranty and serving costs. He wasn’t happy, and said Honda could do better. The salesman altered the contract…

30 minutes later, as he left, the Honda guy sidled up to me and commented; “Amazing old gent, I’ve never been mauled by an octogenarian before!”
😂😂😂
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 12:47:01 AM by Lobo »

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2022, 08:32:02 AM »
I estimate I have 6 years of driving left in me at the most so it's unlikely I will ever own a full EV.

Don’t say that Ted. At 88yo my dad wanted a new Honda Jazz. “Will this be your last car Dad?”, I asked. 
“I don’t know Si… never say never.”

So we went to the dealership, and had a good poke around one; a deal was done & they agreed to deliver it personally a few days later…

The suited salesman duly arrived in the new Jazz, with paperworks in his hand. My dad was on the driveway pop riveting a gazebo, I was in the garage taking the K2 tyre off the wheel, and my sister was covered in grease kindly cleaning the chain. His face was a picture.
My dad, vertically challenged in his old age, asked the salesman whether the seat tracks could be raised? He wasn’t sure. “Well, how many bolts secure it to the floor?”, asked my dad. Again, unsure. Dad wasn’t impressed & got down to have a count / look see… the guy looked embarrassed.
Shortly they began the paperworks, and dad was onto him about the warranty and serving costs. He wasn’t happy, and said Honda could do better. The salesman altered the contract…

30 minutes later, as he left, the Honda guy sidled up to me and commented; “Amazing old gent, I’ve never been mauled by an octogenarian before!”
😂😂😂

Wow Lobo that's an amazing narrative about your Dad & the Honda Jazz.

It triggered a memory for me from when I worked in the car trade back in 1973/4 I was a salesman at an Opel & Audi dealership running a demonstrator that back then was an untaxed perk of the job as was the free petrol that came with it.

A customer sought me out interested in buying our Opel Kadette demonstrator it was a special edition with Rostyle wheels etc launched as a result of the UK economy being in the doldrums post miners strikes, fuel crisis, power workers strike 4 day week etc, etc.

He was a recently retired School Teacher (65ish) looking to buy his "Last ever car" he bought the Kadette Demonstrator, even though they  were very good on under body protection he insisted on buying an aftermarket rust proofing treatment "Endrust" with a 10 year warranty - the car was an M registration.

I left the trade in 1979 I was delighted to see the car occasionally in Derby being driven by the same owner up until around the early 1990's albeit by then starting to show it's age.
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Offline Oddjob

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2022, 12:12:33 PM »
Never had a fuel bill? who paid for the 13k of solar panels Lobo?

That's not a dig, it's just that you have to pay through the nose to get them, they only last so long and then you've got to pay again, so it's like buying petrol, it's a never ending commitment.

Saying that, if I could afford it I'd have some panels on my roof but at my age I can't justify the cost versus the amount of time I'd get use out of them before kicking the bucket.
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Offline Sesman

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2022, 12:26:59 PM »
PV. A 1000 volt fire risk. The firemen can’t isolate the PV output, so won’t go on the roof to put your fire out.

The PV will probably give 20years service with maintenance, but the inverters are only good for 3-5 years depending on quality.

Offline mike the bike

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2022, 12:52:44 PM »
I hope so.  I wouldn't mind a hydrogen EV but lithium is an ecological nightmare on a par with TEL and CFCs
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Offline philward

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2022, 09:26:15 PM »
I estimate I have 6 years of driving left in me at the most so it's unlikely I will ever own a full EV.

I was recently in my local with my wife and I could hear a conversation going on behind me about A10's, A7's, Rockets, high comp pistons, etc that made my ears prick up. When I turned round it was a father (turned out in his mid eighties) and son who had loads of BSA's and a few modern bikes. long story short, I ended up butting into the conversation and the old guy told me he still rides to Cornwall (from Wigan) a few times a year (on his modern Triumph). When I commented that he was a better man than I was (at 67), he said 'I don't do it in one go anymore! I stop half way for a butty break!. I suppose if you have your health, its all in the mind. He had 7 Beeza's inc a 1920's Sloper ny the way. (he didn't loke Jap bikes).
My missus is panicking if I'm out for more than an hour!

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Offline Lobo

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2022, 10:09:57 PM »
Ken, Sesman.

The 40 panels attracted a healthy govt subsidy, we paid $20K for 40 panels. Here in QLD (tho’ not in the UK anymore I believe) there is a useful feed-in tariff, meaning the energy supplier pays us for the surplus energy. It gives us abouts $1000pa back into our hands, ie we never have a bill.
Add to this we’re saving $800 per quarter in ‘no bills’ - or $3000pa.
What all this means is that the panels are ‘cost free’ at the 7 year point, in their 20 year life. We then have 13 years of simple credit…. at todays rates this is getting on for $50k.
And in all the above, I have not factored in the free motoring.

Sesman. Why on earth would you think the firemen could not isolate the PV array?? By law they have to, and on all houses (here anyways) there’s big stickers on the switch box warning them, with an isolation switch inside. We bought a top quality German Fronius Inverter, which I bloody hope will last a lot longer than you suggest!
That said, I suspect we will be updating it at some point, as I’m interested in adding a battery…. which at this point in time, is still not financially viable. But soon…?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 10:11:30 PM by Lobo »

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2022, 10:18:26 PM »
Yeah we have a scarce commodity here in Pome'y land its known as weather as opposed n
to a climate. lol😁😁😁
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Offline Oddjob

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2022, 11:32:10 PM »
If it’s like the UK the feed in tariff will end up getting scrapped as it’s going to cost them too much. The shame is that as it’s the government and not a private company paying these tariffs they’ll be nothing you can do if they end them. Contract law doesn’t seem to apply to governments, prime example of that is the increase in retirement age, why that wasn’t challenged legally as it’s a clear breach of the contract we all made with the government I’ll never know.
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Offline Sesman

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2022, 12:10:07 AM »
Not in the uk, mate.They let it burn…it’s the law. Health and safety…
« Last Edit: May 27, 2022, 07:13:31 AM by Sesman »

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: Electric Bikes - the future might be Tim Woolmers Yasa technology.
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2022, 07:11:29 AM »
If it’s like the UK the feed in tariff will end up getting scrapped as it’s going to cost them too much. The shame is that as it’s the government and not a private company paying these tariffs they’ll be nothing you can do if they end them. Contract law doesn’t seem to apply to governments, prime example of that is the increase in retirement age, why that wasn’t challenged legally as it’s a clear breach of the contract we all made with the government I’ll never know.

Wendy's OAP was moved from 60 then to 64 yrs 9 months then finally to 66 yrs the Waspi case failed in the Appeal Courts. The original contract must have been written in such a way that HMG could freely move the goal posts as they have yet again to 68 yrs by 2037-39.
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