Brake master Cylinder painting

[Oddjob]

That was the point though Nigel, if what my source claims is true and Jap alloy cannot be anodised without melting how did they anodise them in the first place? Or is it a finish that resembles anodising but is in fact some sort of dye or paint or even passivacation?

As far as I understand it anodising is a sort of dying of the surface which alters the molecular structure of the top surface layers. From what I’ve seen is quite resistant to fading, which certainly isn’t the case with these parts.

[Johnny4428]

Nice finish on that clutch master cylinder!

[K2-K6]

It may be a generalisation of "Jap" alloy to put all of the bike's components into one category, there's difference in components from what I've seen.

Anodised finish is dye incorporated to give the colours available, many of those dye are not infinitely stable once applied. Long lasting, but not perfect by most means.

Anodising is itself controlled corrosion of metal and primarily just the surface, dyes added to give effect we see.

Genuinely good overview available on the wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodizing to give better picture of how it's done.

[Oddjob]

Nigel, go and talk to any firm who does anodising, usually the first question they ask is "What grade of alloy is the part made of" As soon as you mention it's off a Japanese motorcycle they immediately say it can't be done, I've personally spoke to 4 of the firms around me, the only one I could get to do any for me was when I said the part was made in the UK and was billet alloy and such and such a grade, then they said they'd do it. It appears to be the same story everywhere, no one will touch engine casings, fork sliders, yokes or anything else that's made of Japanese alloy, common phase used is that there is so many other parts added to the mix it wouldn't surprise me if the Toyko Express was in there as well. If that's the story here how did firms like Honda get there parts done? the process hasn't changed since the 70s. Parts that Honda buy in these days are sometimes anodised but I'm betting those parts are made of pure alloy (when I say alloy I of course mean Aluminium but just can't be bothered to spell it), stuff like wheel rims off the Africa Twin appear to be anodised but as we know Honda don't make those parts, they just buy them in.

I'm wondering, would it be possible to dust the mould of a part with paint dye, then pour the alloy in and thus dye the surface of the part? Just speculating.

I'm not saying the parts can't be anodised, I'm confused on how they can be if what I'm hearing is correct.

[taysidedragon]

Nigel is right when he says you can't generalise about Japanese alloys. They vary a lot from manufacturer to manufacturer.  What Honda use is different to what Suzuki or Yamaha use, unless the parts are bought in from suppliers like DID, for example. The quality of alloy is going to vary greatly and the only way to tell what you have got in an old part is to test the alloy, which is not worth the cost just to get a part anodised. The other way is to go ahead and anodise it and hope for a good result. Not an option if the anodisers won't even try it.

In my experience Honda parts are better quality and last better than most other Japanese manufacturers,  so the alloy quality is probably better. Tin hat on now, incoming from YamaKawaSuki fans!

Also the term Alloy refers to a mixture of metals, any metals. Stainless steel, chrome vanadium steel, brass, etc. are all alloys, not just aluminium.

[K2-K6]

To make it clear from refinishing these, I doubt if anyone would wish to experiment (supplier of ano etc) on customer pieces, without you taking the risk fully.

Their knowledge of metal in various components is not definitive though, just based on the rate it dissappears in their custody 

Honda didn't make the mastercylinder though, but subbed out to contractors, the most likely of which would be aircraft manufacturing at that time who would certainly be familiar with metal finishing in critical component. Sochiro was after all an aircraft man in original training  too. Believe the design may even be Girling and patented.

All aluminium base can be anodised though as I understand it, but with different settings etc. Aircraft manufacturing of hydraulic valving would be the most suspect supplier at a guess as their stuff far preceeded this brake.

Where I trained it was routinely used for very light treatment on casting, that ultimately for crack detection and casting integrity reasons.

Often global description is given particularly when it arrives to market. Billet just means they machine from a block as that's what raw stock is called. Has become a trendy label for missuse generally.  That billet could have been next forged to give its form then machined and they no longer market as billet but machined from forged, thats not here in mc but generally. Mc is cast.

The original finish I'd only recognise as black onodised on all the examples I've seen, caps screwing on with a with characteristic anodised feel too.
Original maybe but maybe not repeatable with processing availability currently, that I can see.

[K2-K6]

As example of simple difference:-

Brake caliper body is cast and then machined, in comparison to brake arm which appears forged then machined.

Casting not likely to withstand tensile load required when braking by pulling the arm, well not at that slim section it's made to. 

[Oddjob]

I got the distinct impression that they didn't want to try as it may somehow contaminate their solution, if so I ain't really fault them as I'm betting it ain't cheap and if it's a big bath there's a lot of solution to replace just to see if it worked or not.  I was willing to risk it but they weren't.

[Orcade-Ian]

Ken,
Having had such cracking results from Silver leaf Rub N Buff, I wonder what their Ebony stuff would come up like?  I've not seen black.  You would have to scotch the original faded anodic protection for a good key but at least you can re-apply it whenever necessary without too much trouble.  Just a thought!  For a tenner, I might give it a try!

Ian

Bummocks!  It's metallic ebony!  Back to't drawing board!

[JamesH]

I got the distinct impression that they didn't want to try as it may somehow contaminate their solution, if so I ain't really fault them as I'm betting it ain't cheap and if it's a big bath there's a lot of solution to replace just to see if it worked or not.  I was willing to risk it but they weren't.

Ken - are you able to share details of the outfit you use for the ceramic coating? That master cylinder looks awesome

[AshimotoK0]

Agree with JamesH  Ken that finish looks awesome and price is good too. Please share

From what I remember from the Sandcastonly site, for original finish, you need to find an anodizer who does anodizing using chromate process rather than sulphuric acid based.

A quick dip in strong  and hot caustic soda removes the old anodizing in seconds BTW.

I have had decent results using a combination of methods described by ChrisR /John Wyatt and UK Pete. Strip old anodizing using hot caustic soda. Paint with Klostermanns black acid-etch primer then finish with PJ1 satin black. Then bake at 155 Deg C for about an hour and finally buff with a bit of Solvol Autosol  on a soft cloth. Pretty durable but doubtless not totally brake fluid resistant but great if you are using the silicone based brake fluids or minimize exposure to the conventional brake fluid.

[Oddjob]

Thought I'd mentioned where the ceramic coating was done, it's Camcoat in Warrington. https://www.camcoat.com/

If you want the same finishes as I've had done the gold is CG-Gold/HHC, the Cermakrome is MCX/Burnish/polish and the black is BHK: 1-coat. I've had some silver done as well but don't know the code for that until the new receipt gets issued. Prices I quoted did not inc VAT, so £12 for body and £6 for lid.

Didn't realise there was another process for anodising Ash, Camcoat do a really nice finish called DiamonDyze which is supposed to be the dogs danglies. I'm toying with the idea of having some pistons done in it, if the alloy is ok of course.

On their Instagram page is a picture of my CB1300 wheels I had done in gold the other week.

[JamesH]

Thought I'd mentioned where the ceramic coating was done, it's Camcoat in Warrington. https://www.camcoat.com/

If you want the same finishes as I've had done the gold is CG-Gold/HHC, the Cermakrome is MCX/Burnish/polish and the black is BHK: 1-coat. I've had some silver done as well but don't know the code for that until the new receipt gets issued. Prices I quoted did not inc VAT, so £12 for body and £6 for lid.

Didn't realise there was another process for anodising Ash, Camcoat do a really nice finish called DiamonDyze which is supposed to be the dogs danglies. I'm toying with the idea of having some pistons done in it, if the alloy is ok of course.

On their Instagram page is a picture of my CB1300 wheels I had done in gold the other week.

Thanks for sharing Ken - I’ll get in touch with them as I’ve got a few bits to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Oddjob]

Mention my name James as he seemed happy for the referrals he’s been getting. Also if the bits are on my price list I posted mention that as well so you get the same prices. He may charge more if the parts aren’t as clean and presentable as mine usually are. Or he may not, never really asked.

[JamesH]

Mention my name James as he seemed happy for the referrals he’s been getting. Also if the bits are on my price list I posted mention that as well so you get the same prices. He may charge more if the parts aren’t as clean and presentable as mine usually are. Or he may not, never really asked.

That’s great thanks Ken. Stupid question - what prep do you do before sending parts to him? Do you manually strip the existing paint with your dremel brushes?