Planning ahead - fitting the primary drive unit back in place'

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Ted, are the bolts (flanged) the same style on the 500/550 as the 400/4 ones? - ie reduced head? I'd like to source JIS (reduced head) flanged bolts but the only guy I have found so far wants around £12 a bolt!! - I could make them for much less. Let us know if you manage to source any 8mm bolts with 12mm flanged head in S/S...

None of my bolts are original they have been replaced previously with Alley key headed SS bolts & washers pretty much everywhere including cam covers & side covers.
On my 400 I had the originals Zinc Plated locally.

Parts manual shows the 10 M8 x 100 as bolts with 10 separate washers, the M6 bolts are the flanged type it appears.

Others have said Middletons have some good bolts to replace the JIS headed ones that look the part. M8 Hex Set x 100 £1.68 presume plus Vat & Post.

https://www.stainlessmiddleton.co.uk/32908-metric-fine-bolts-setscrews

[Oddjob]

I doubt that Middleton would sell a 8 x 100 set bolt Ted, set means threaded full length and that particular bolt is partially threaded so not a set bolt. You must also factor in that some bolts used by Honda are metric fine, most if not all the 10mm bolts used by Honda are metric fine. Any that fit into a thread inside the part, like the clamp bolt for the fork stanchions in the lower yoke are metric fine. The engine hanger bolts were also metric fine BUT you can use standard metric ones in there and just use a standard nut instead, personally I'd use the correct metric fine.

I buy most of my stainless from Middletons, mainly because his bolts don't tend to have the stamping on them that most have, his are machined flat on the top then polished, they look chromed.

He does do flanged 6mm bolts but I suspect he buys them in as they are not to his usual standards. You can use a unflanged bolt and a washer though no problem.

M8 and M6 bolts are not metric fine BTW, the threads are all the standard pitch, 1.25 for 8mm and 1.00 for 6mm. Standard pitch on a 10mm bolt is 1.5, metric fine is 1.25.

In a short while a member on here whose bike I've recently worked on had all socket screws in the casings, including the camcover and the head on them is too big for certain locations, next to the tappet covers for instance they would foul the tappet cover going in and out, you couldn't tell if the screw was cross threaded going in it was so stiff, same coming out, you didn't know if it was dragging all the thread out with it. I advised him to replace them all with the modern Honda equivalent, namely the 8mm headed screws they use today on their engines, I don't like the JIS screws that were fitted as standard, cheeseheaded or putty headed screws we called them, due to them rounding off so often, the new 8mm headed ones are FAR better, you can use an air rathcet on them as well or a speed brace. The head is even smaller than the JIS screw so no fouling, they look ace fitted. He's now replaced all of his with new Honda screws and sent me pics, he'll be posting those pics soon on a thread about the work he's recently done on the bike, watch this space and see if they look ok to you. The cost to do the camover, the generator cover, clutch cover and sprocket over was around £30-40 I believe. Only one was a special order, most are very common bolts.

One last thing, if going for the M8 x 100 bolts to replace the 10 holding the crankcase together buy the M8 thick washers not the standard washers, the standard are too thin for that location.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I think I might have talked myself into keeping the bolts I have for the crank case halves.

Certainly look at different bolts for the side covers Ken when the photos come up,

[Oddjob]

I'm going with Middletons 8mm bolts for my crankcase Ted, I like to know they won't rust and look awful in a few years. I'll also zinc/nickel plate my old ones as well and make a decision if they look really good.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I'm going with Middletons 8mm bolts for my crankcase Ted, I like to know they won't rust and look awful in a few years. I'll also zinc/nickel plate my old ones as well and make a decision if they look really good.

I could only see set bolts not bolts in M8 now I have looked again I have found M8x100 hex bolt standard pitch £1.64 each plus Vat presumably & delivery.

I might at this stage just replace the top casing bolts as those are the ones you can see - don't like the idea of them being full of water even if mine are SS.

Mine measure as below  for the top casing are:-

2 of M8 x100 is that what they call standard pitch?
1 of M8 x 144 (parts book later engine number shows 145)
1 of M6 x 100
1 of M6 x50
1 of M6 x35 ( parts manual shows 32)

Mine are SS hex head with SS washers parts book shows Flange bolts in all descriptions - none listed on Middletons I have plenty of SS washers.?
The M6 & M8's  on Middletons list  are all Standard Pitch is that the right thread?
They do not appear to show the pitch size as  1.0 OR 1.25 etc.

[Oddjob]

They don't show pitch size Ted unless it's non standard as a rule. There is usually at least 5mm of thread unused in a standard Honda tapping, so it's ok to use 150mm in a 145mm hole for instance, use a thicker washer and bed it slowly, just in case, you can always trim it down if it's too long in the end. 35mm for 32mm is what I use.

[Oddjob]

6 and 8mm bolts that Middleton sells fit the 500 in all locations. It's only the 10mm and higher bolts that need metric fine. The engine hanger bars for instance, the ones at the back of the engine are threaded metric fine so need metric fine nuts to suit.

[Bryanj]

Oh come on Ted,
Whitworth
BSF
BSP
BSB
BSC
GAS
PIPE TAPER
BA
and thats not all

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Not forgetting Chains, Furlong, Rod, Peck & Bushels Bryan.😁😁😁

Not to mention the Gill - I think it is still a legal whisky measure today that defines a shot.

[Bryanj]

Yup, but i was just talking thread forms/pitches

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Bryan I was remembering the tables on the back outside page of our school exercise books!

[Bryanj]

You had books! What was wrong with slate and chalk(monty python sketch starting!)

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

When I say  exercise book it was actually a sheet of Papyrus that we wrote on using a crows feather - we could not afford ink so we cut a finger writing with our own blood.

[mickwinf]

you were lucky........