Author Topic: Measuring O-Rings  (Read 3171 times)

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2023, 05:31:58 PM »
Yes Ken, Nitrile is still my personal preferred choice for tappet O rings but some customers ask for O rings (regardless of where they are needed to fit on the bike) to be supplied in Viton, so I oblige and give them the choice, where I can.
Anyways, my pricing and what I sell is no concern of anyone, except me. Forum members that purchase from me regularly know I always give a discount on my Ebay prices and do post at cost and it has always been that way. If they buy direct, I don't have to pay any ebay charges etc and I pass that saving on to the buyer as a discount. As I sell on many different bike / parts platforms, my ebay page is just my shop window to advertise some of my wares and anyone that knows me, even remotely, contacts me direct to buy out of ebay at a discounted price.

LINK TO MY EBAY PAGE. As many of you know already, I give 10% discount and do post at cost to forum members if you PM me direct.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/julies9731/m.html?item=165142672569&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

LINK TO MY CB400/4 ENGINE STRIP / ASSESSMENT AND REBUILD...NOW COMPLETE
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14049.msg112691/topicseen.html#new

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2023, 06:42:01 PM »
I wonder why MY pricing and what I sell is of such concern to you in that case.

What I can claim is that mine are the exact size and I can provide invoices to prove that, I can also prove how much I've paid for each one, in that way everyone knows how much profit I'm making on these, fine to give 10% away when the mark up is 300-500 in most cases. Care to do the same?
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2023, 08:00:28 PM »
Care to do the same?
Nope, I can't think of one good business reason why I would do that Ken.
LINK TO MY EBAY PAGE. As many of you know already, I give 10% discount and do post at cost to forum members if you PM me direct.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/julies9731/m.html?item=165142672569&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

LINK TO MY CB400/4 ENGINE STRIP / ASSESSMENT AND REBUILD...NOW COMPLETE
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14049.msg112691/topicseen.html#new

Offline Trigger

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2023, 11:20:36 PM »
I don't think any effort I make to get a better deal for the members is a LOT of effort, yes it's some effort and TBH I doubt I'd have bothered except for a recent experience when I went to fix another members bike, FOC I might add, he paid for petrol and parts, all my labour was free and it was considerable I may add.

His problem was his carbs, the bike was hard to start, ran poorly and was generally a bitch to get running. A lot caused no doubt by the fact he had the wrong carbs on, he had the carbs used on the continent, with smaller jets and a snorkel needed etc. He had a spare bank of 627B carbs and I offered to completely strip and restore them for him, free. That's a LOT of labour. However I'm not in this game to make money, if I do it's a bonus but I don't let the pursuit of money rule my life, I saw a member struggling and offered to help, on the proviso that he didn't say anything on the forum, I didn't want everybody and his dog taking advantage of my good nature. So we met and the carbs were handed over, I had the lifter rod hard chromed as it was pretty rusty, the carbs were painted, the jets were all wrong, a real mixture of sizes, the needle clips were in different places, the mixture screws weren't set right, all in all the bank was a mess and someone had clearly been fiddling without knowing what they were doing. I heli-coiled all the stripped threads in the float bowls, sourced new genuine jets, cleaned everything up, polished the float bowls and carb tops to within an inch of their lives (and we all know what that means with me), had all the bracketry and everything unique zinc plated by another member on here as my kit is still in storage, in short when they were done they were as good as perfect, better than Gerbens if I'm honest.
I fitted all new Viton orings, which he provided, I compared them to a set I still have for mine off Gerben and noticed differences, not knowing which was correct I fitted them as the job needed to be completed.
I then travelled 125 miles to fit them and service his bike at the same time, this proved to be a very wise move as the bike was pretty bad TBH, it ran like a slug, wouldn't rev, wouldn't go, flat as hell, hard to start, hard to rev. Horrible. We did the tappets, checked the timing even though it was electronic, it was out, so that was fixed. Did the camchain tension. Then went to fit the carbs, I'd asked him to buy some new inlet orings as I wanted to be sure they were sealing, he had them in a small bag. However when we went to fit them we found they were such an appalling fit I didn't think they would seal, not wanting to chance that as it means removing the carbs again to change them I decided to use an old tappet cover oring instead, that's how badly they fitted, so we fitted the new orings in the tappet covers instead as they are easy to change afterwards.
Now clearly that shows that suppliers of these parts are not supplying the correct sizes, this concerned me as I know how critical the inlet manifold seal is to the good running of the engine, anyone finding the engine racing etc after fitting these would probably discount them as the cause as they were new.
So I decided I'd do something about that, enquired about having some made the correct size, not close, not within spec, the EXACT size as stipulated by Honda, that's 30.8 x 3.2mm not 30 x 3mm or 31 x 3mm or any other variation of those numbers, any member can search for those sizes and they'll find they aren't made, if you want that size it's a special order with a 500 minimum order. Now that gets expensive, especially when you factor in what the closest oring to it costs in comparison, double the price in fact. Same goes for quite a few other orings that Honda list, they used odd sizes and they just ain't available off the shelf, you can get close but not exact. So whilst I was talking with the UK largest manufacturer of orings I got some other quotes at the same time, I thought lets see if I can source all the hard to find ones. So all the carb Viton rings, got quotes for all of those, the oil pump, got quotes for those. Now I know what they cost and I checked to see what they were selling for on Ebay. And then I realise how much they are overcharging, over 500% on most of them, a ring that costs 13p is marked up to 90p in some cases and that's one of the cheaper ones and it's the wrong size which makes it really poor value.

So, a lot of effort, not really , few emails, a little searching and the desire to see people get value for money.

I did notice BTW that all your Ebay links are now significantly cheaper than they were yesterday, competition, it's a bitch isn't it. I can in fact go much lower with my prices, I don't mind not making any profit, I can also significantly expand my range, I have hundreds of orings lying around, I tend to buy them in 20s or 50s when I buy them so I've got loads spare. Dipstick, 550 clutch adjuster, petrol tap ones, starter motor ones, camshaft end cap ones. I may even start doing some carb overall kits in Viton, perfect sizes.

I should also point out an error in your post, Julie joined Aug 2014. That's not even 9 years ago never mind 10 and she didn't start selling anything until she joined up with you. Maybe 5-6 years I'll give you that.

Now please don't post on my threads, you're not welcome.

You Can not ask other member not to post on your threads, this is a open members forum and i will post and comment were i want Ken.

Offline taysidedragon

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2023, 11:39:04 PM »
Here we go again! Chill out people 🙂
Gareth

1977 CB400F
1965 T100SS

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2023, 12:25:29 AM »


You Can not ask other member not to post on your threads, this is a open members forum and i will post and comment were i want Ken.

Actually I can ask, it would be polite of that person to comply with that request but I suppose I was asking too much.


Care to do the same?
Nope, I can't think of one good business reason why I would do that Ken.

Thought not. Not into transparency?

I on the other hand have nothing to hide, I'll gladly divulge info, if they don't want to buy then it's up to them. Maybe we should let the members decide who to buy from?

Here we go again! Chill out people 🙂

I am mega chill, seriously. I can however only speak for myself.
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Offline Trigger

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2023, 05:58:25 AM »
You need to get a life Ken, instead of searching what other people are doing and then maybe you would get your build finished instead of just talking about it. I thought this was the 500 that Honda should of built, if it took them that long to build a bike they, would of gone out of business years ago.
Maybe you could tell me what i had for my dinner last night  :) :) :)

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2023, 03:44:08 PM »
LMFAO. For dinner, something bitter by the sound of it.

After doing some calculations I can adjust my proposed prices downwards once more. These are for the exact size required, not close, not yeah, I think that'll do the job, made in Nitrile specially for me or Viton when it's required. Which neither of these 2 sets are.

8 tappet cover orings £4 inc P&P. If you can get a lower price than that I can guarantee they are not the exact size that Honda said was required. If you want a close fit I can do those as well, a LOT cheaper. I'll do sets of 12 as well if you want to replace the inlet manifold ones at the same time for an extra £2.
Oil pump kit, all 5 rings, £7 inc P&P.
Crankcase plug Orings, all 4 £5 inc P&P.

I'll also be expanding my range, I'll be doing carb kits for the 500/550 in Viton, all exact sizes, all rings specially manufactured by the UKs leading oring supplier, not 100% sure on the price yet but significantly cheaper than any competition at present Ebay prices.

I may expand into the 400 and 750 markets if these sell well.

I also plan to see if I can sell every oring used on the 500/550, a one stop shop for orings, may even expand into oil seals as well. As soon as these are manufactured for me (and there is a lead time stated by the manufacturer) I'll let members know
« Last Edit: June 23, 2023, 05:03:37 PM by Oddjob »
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Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2023, 12:52:26 PM »
Fuelled by this 'debate' I decided to see what original Honda Genuine  'O' rings I had for my 500K0 as I was under the impression that quite a few, particularly for the external fitting of the oil pump)  were never included in the gasket sets.

Well I just dug out a NOS bottom end set recently and checked all of the sizes and , to my knowledge, EVERY bottom end 'O' ring listed in the K0/K1 combined Parts Book is included apart from the internal one inside the the Mitsuba starter motor. Before anyone tells me I can't use ancient O rings, I had the hardness and surfaces (in case of ozone damage) on a couple of them checked by my mate at Hull Uni and they measured/inspected just fine so I am deffo going to use them this week on my own engine.

Only query is that there is one extra I can't identify unless I am missing something in the Parts Book. It's the one in the top right with ? ? near it . Measured around 25mm (ID)  x 1.65 but very hard to measure exactly.   Anyone got an idea where it fits in the bottom end please? Perhaps it's internal on the oil pump?

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« Last Edit: June 25, 2023, 12:57:00 PM by AshimotoK0 »
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Offline Oddjob

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2023, 02:27:32 PM »
The one inside the rotor cover isn't listed Ash so isn't included in that set, same set as I have BTW. The 4 x 19.8 x 2.4 rings are the 3 for the gallery plugs fitted to the lower crankcase and the last one is the pressure relief valve on the oil pump. So long as the orings are sealed inside the pack I don't see any problem using them myself. They don't go hard until you start to use them in my experience.

As for the mystery ring, how about countershaft behind the bearing, listed as 24.5 and I remember it's very thin.

So lets see if I can place them all.

Start at the top.
The 4 x 19.8mm rings we've done.
14 x 2.5mm are for the oil pump
11.5 x 2mm took me a while to figure out but it's the shift drum stopper bolt that fits in the top crankcase. 
13 x 2.5 is the plug in the left side of the main oil gallery, inside the generator cover.
25 x 1.65mm is I think the countershaft ring.
23 x 2mm is dipstick
15 x 2.5mm is oil filter bolt
89 x 4.5 is oil filter cover
47 x 3.2mm is the oil pump
24.4 x 3.1mm is the starter motor

I know the size of the internal starter motor one as well Ash, got a few in fact.
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2023, 05:00:03 PM »
Sounds pretty spot on  to me Ken. What's the purpose of the countershaft 'O' ring ..what is it sealing or is it used as a damper. .. can't say I remember it on mine ..oh dear.
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2023, 05:51:35 PM »
It really hides Ash, it's a seal between the gear and the collar the oil seal goes around IMO. I think it's there to stop any oil creepage happening under the collar, which isn't part of the shaft BTW, it's just pressed on.
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2023, 07:11:18 AM »
I don't think I took that bearing off the countershaft. My original countershaft had the dreaded needle roller break up that occured on the early K0s and I got a replacement with a nice bearing off Bryan. That's why I wont have seen that 'O' ring I suspect.
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline Oddjob

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2023, 03:26:28 PM »
I've only ever replaced that bearing once, on my current restoration bike. Didn't need it, just did it because I was changing every bearing. Replaced the oring as well, might as well if you're in there. It's thin, that's about all I remember about it. Wasn't a problem to change BTW, just knocked the old bearing off in a vice and fitted the new in reverse. Didn't even need heat.

Just sorting some stuff out with the manufacturers and I'll get some orings ordered. Lead time is 5-6 weeks for some of the rings. You can get a Viton ring that's been peroxide cured, something for the food industry I believe, some rings are over £14 a ring when you need that curing. Thank god we don't need that method.
Kids in a the back seat cause accidents.
Accidents in the back seat cause kids.

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Measuring O-Rings
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2023, 08:11:27 PM »
Try getting Chemraz 'o' rings Ken ...mega money!
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

 

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