New to CB400 four and new here! Front brake improvement?

[K2-K6]

If you are using a nice soft rubber headed mallet that should not break the lever - I guess it depends how hard you strike the ball end.

Oops Ted, thanks as I now realise I didn't put critically the hit method    just the palm of my hand to pulse the lever, no tools or weight required.

There, does that seem better 

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

If you are using a nice soft rubber headed mallet that should not break the lever - I guess it depends how hard you strike the ball end.

Oops Ted, thanks as I now realise I didn't put critically the hit method    just the palm of my hand to pulse the lever, no tools or weight required.

There, does that seem better 

If I used the Palm of my Hand like that I would have a massive red bruise for weeks! :'( :'( :'(

[taysidedragon]

If you are using a nice soft rubber headed mallet that should not break the lever - I guess it depends how hard you strike the ball end.

Oops Ted, thanks as I now realise I didn't put critically the hit method    just the palm of my hand to pulse the lever, no tools or weight required.

There, does that seem better 

Better. 🙂

[taysidedragon]

Better with hand. Not sure it's necessary though.

[Oddjob]

I think a stress test on the brake system is a very good idea, if it fails it fails in the right place not when you REALLY don't want it to be failing.

[Mikep328]

This morning I did the brake work; turns out that almost none of it was needed. 

The 'old' brake fluid that I drained from the system looked like it had just come out of the container!  The caliper looked good and had a new-looking SS piston.  The groove for the seal did have some grunge in it so I cleaned that up.  I installed a new seal, a new Honda brand piston (totally unnecessary - should have disassembled the caliper first before ordering parts) - and the new Vesrah pads.  Then installed the new HEL lines/bled the brakes got a good, firm lever...just like it had before!    It is raining so I didn't have the opportunity to test the brakes though I ran the bike bike/forth in the community garage.  In that minimal bit of testing I couldn't feel any difference at all.   If the weather is better tomorrow I'll go out and put some miles/braking on the new pads.  If there is no improvement, I'll install the Brembo carbon/ceramic pads and see how they work.

The one positive outcome is that the brake is releasing properly now; it appears that was the only thing I accomplished!

[Oddjob]

Make sure you bed the pads in properly, most people don't even know how to do this TBH, they just go out, hammer the brakes on and wonder why it's not as good as they expected. Especially true of bedding in ceramic pads, it's a fairly lengthy job TBH, I'll see if I can find the instructions on how to do it properly, came off the SBS website IIRC.

Clean the brake disc off with brake cleaner to remove any existing pad transfer material, a gentle rub with some fine wet and dry won't hurt either. Then take the bike out and do 15 gentle brakes from 30mph and then a 2 mile cool down followed by another 15 or so from around 45mph using moderate brake pressure followed by another 2 mile cool down run, then stop to see how the discs look. You should clearly see some pad transfer, it's a sort of blue/grey mist on the surface of the disc, then do 15-20 full on braking sessions from around 65-75mph, dropping the speed down really quickly but rolling off when around 10mph and then back up to speed later, followed by a 5 mile cool down run.

I've copied and pasted and adapted that from a post of mine on another forum, the method was advised by SBS on how to bed in ceramic pads but can also be used for other materials

[Mikep328]

Thank you!  Weather permitting I'll do that tomorrow!

[K2-K6]

I'll echo the need to go through a bedding period / process,  they have very little of their true performance straight after initial installation, and so difficult to judge tangible improvements or otherwise.

Ordinarily, you'll feel them improving as you go through running and preparation to then give assessment.

[K2-K6]

Additionally, modern brakes have so much spare capacity in torque they can impart, off the top initial potency of bite etc, that most wouldn't know they are not initially performing that well by using them at normal road speed.  Many situations wouldn't tax them in any significant way and so you dont notice if they are anything in the way of lacking after pad change etc.

The older systems I feel that you'll definitely feel the difference as the pads and discs get a little more familiar with each other 

Most disc aren't good immediately after initial cleaning with solvent, whatever their design and material spec.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Interestingly back in the 1960's my late father would always advise car owners not only to bed in new brakes but tyres as well.

Then again back then a new car had to be run in for the first 500 miles or so.

[K2-K6]

Interestingly back in the 1960's my late father would always advise car owners not only to bed in new brakes but tyres as well.

Then again back then a new car had to be run in for the first 500 miles or so.

Drum brakes (extensive in that era) are significantly subjected to circular irregularities in surface of friction materials and shoe pivot point variables.  Getting them all worn so they touch competently of good advice certainly.

Anyone hold the rear brake on while torquing the wheel spindle during wheel installation  ? At least takes out any available variables in brake plate position to help as best possible the alignment on them.

Moto-X drum brakes of past era's are usually a bit wide toleranced when it comes to brake plate on spindoe location. Especially with twin lead design, often significantly improved by this tightening method to get both shoe working to maximum effect.

[taysidedragon]

Interestingly back in the 1960's my late father would always advise car owners not only to bed in new brakes but tyres as well.

Then again back then a new car had to be run in for the first 500 miles or so.

Drum brakes (extensive in that era) are significantly subjected to circular irregularities in surface of friction materials and shoe pivot point variables.  Getting them all worn so they touch competently of good advice certainly.

Anyone hold the rear brake on while torquing the wheel spindle during wheel installation  ? At least takes out any available variables in brake plate position to help as best possible the alignment on them.

Moto-X drum brakes of past era's are usually a bit wide toleranced when it comes to brake plate on spindoe location. Especially with twin lead design, often significantly improved by this tightening method to get both shoe working to maximum effect.

Standard procedure for old Brit bike drum brakes. Does make a difference.👍

[Mikep328]

Went out today to "bed in" the brakes per Odjob's post.  The Results?

FANTASTIC!  It is orders of magnitude better than previously and stops with authority now where it used to be  "scary."  Of course, since I changed pads, caliper piston and seal, and brake lines I can't say whether any/all of that contributed or was it just new pads/proper bedding.  In any case, I am quite pleased with the brakes and with the help of folks on this site!! 

As soon as I got back I let the bike cool a bit and proceeded with the next project - pulling/checking/adjusting the carbs.  Pulled them off with no drama at all.  I want to have them sorted/back on the bike for a ride on Friday.  Hope I don't need any parts other than the various o-Rings.  I have those and new carb screws from Nurse Julie.

[Bryanj]

Several big aerosols of carb cleaner or better still an ultrasonic cleaning bath