New frame/engine bolts. What type?

[davidcumbria]

Good points by Ken and Ted,  I wasn't worried about thread pitch as the engine mounting bolts are all going onto their own nuts but I hadn't considered this with the lower yoke pinch bolts.  Are they standard 1.5mm pitch on the m10 bolts?

I might have to have a rethink on the lower engine mounts.

Just been through all this. IIRC Kay fast and middletons don’t have t some of the bolts in the correct pitch and I ended up getting them from china on ebay( bottom yoke maybe) what I have found is that by grinding off the lettering , polishing up with the brush wheels and bench polisher the heads can quite easily end up with a mirror finish.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354792939265?var=624112326971

[Oddjob]

Good points by Ken and Ted,  I wasn't worried about thread pitch as the engine mounting bolts are all going onto their own nuts but I hadn't considered this with the lower yoke pinch bolts.  Are they standard 1.5mm pitch on the m10 bolts?

I might have to have a rethink on the lower engine mounts.

Just been through all this. IIRC Kay fast and middletons don’t have t some of the bolts in the correct pitch and I ended up getting them from china on ebay( bottom yoke maybe) what I have found is that by grinding off the lettering , polishing up with the brush wheels and bench polisher the heads can quite easily end up with a mirror finish.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/354792939265?var=624112326971

The bottom yoke pinch bolt is 10 x 35mm Dave. it's a 1.25 pitch. Exactly what Dave Middletons lists on this page https://www.stainlessmiddleton.co.uk/32908-metric-fine-bolts-setscrews the big difference is that Dave Middletons has the correct head size at 14mm, that and the price I suppose, plus it's not a set bolt, meaning unless he's listed it wrong it will only be part threaded like the original, unlike the chinese copies. A 17mm head size in that location looks wrong IMO, they tend to overhang the yoke itself. The original bolt only used a spring washer under the head, I find doing that can scrape the paint off as it spins before it digs in and compresses, I'd advise using a flat washer under the spring as well, if needed increase the length to 40mm as there is usually 5mm of unused thread on most of the Honda bolts. You could trim a couple of mm off if needed.

Forgot to mention, the top yoke pinch bolts on the 500 are easy to find, the ones used on the 550 are not as they are 7mm not 8mm, those are some of the only original bolts left on my bike. Even sourced the 3 small crosshead screws used on the idiot panel in stainless.

[Seabeowner]

93201-100-350B £2.21 at DSS and good if you are ordering other bits at same time to save postage.

[DomP]

I've just been thinking, you say the m10 bolts on Hondas are metric fine thread with 14mm heads but the front engine mount bolts, don't they need to be 17mm heads so they are held captive in the cases as they are tightened?

Any idea what pitch the rear shock lower bolts are?

[Oddjob]

It's the nuts which are locked by the crankcases Dom, the bolt head is on the outside of the hanger bracket. Same for the lower bolts under the points etc The nuts would also need to be metric fine as well BTW Dom. He doesn't do M10 17mm metric fine nuts though so maybe using standard metric M10 bolts might be a good idea in those locations. Or use these.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/285567726891?var=587531291986&hash=item427d29b52b:g:r2wAAOSwzFllL4at&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0Epu6WtmmRstnoacdwXADmYrdZ%2BXmv0%2F72K9kZo%2F1SIdnmDSf4HG5VLzckl0zP5q1C6Bhml%2Bb4tLWOldXViSABnI93xZ8sNOAb0GeQbNBBaqIMMcDxe9UbG1ojZ6XUCgTwQ0pkmmKL8N0VKtFcbVAIrjCERX%2BN%2BuhXTDb%2FkxeJrFC0jLFcyTq0XrcgaW2h%2B2vXStQaCaenHzFa6KlyJxsLdZQVeYMw0zKjtH7ZaU4QukVHFt30bIleEpQ04pdsfi4uWZrMLlBtRX1mSct57q6oo%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9L4jfuAYw

Rear shocks if genuine would be metric fine BUT aftermarket could be any, you'd need to check, my Marzocchis for instance are standard metric thread at 1.5mm. 

[Oddjob]

Or these. UK seller.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276159592449?var=578528482110&epid=20030270695&hash=item404c64f801:g:1EEAAOSwhN9lXH6O&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8JM5FVDZoDYC654X6TJd4u256bji1BTGccgAPBi%2FEEeX44Ww5sBzFWQ6uudmuNebHKkvz6e0zrBXP9J4oE%2BZrbLomqwbyksoFEnSPaYmxufKzHNuhT9y9eeMS4Jk%2B82Y3Up2yXX5L39mUewMMOD8%2F8UF%2BBFo53%2FPKGEbRQmBpFXrTdX7hmb23oxtyhR2TZrm5%2F4%2BapeW201WHOzo4bTiRoPdMQTv%2FoXxf6qI5W55ijTBf52bdr9IvVZIdXBmpc90%2BeIpEZmdXO%2BzoZLO3JoxySWL%2Bmkx1Na%2Fex84vOZChSFvIIVfOG9cLufTIWSRwJ0VtQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9L4jfuAYw

17mm spanner size as well.

[DomP]

Ah good point, I assumed the nuts would be 14mm too which I guess they are.  I thought I needed to use 14mm headed bolts in the lower mount positions in order to be able to get a socket on them?

[Oddjob]

TBH Dom they look much better with 14mm heads, the socket fitting better is an added bonus, the slots in the crankcase are 17mm though.

[K2-K6]

An alternate choice that may give size combination thats useful https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112173022015

[K2-K6]

Anyone using this type https://www.accu.co.uk/hexalobular-pan-head-screws/475498-SHP-M6-10-V2-A2  to replace casing just screws  ?

You can get more rounded head profile too, they are really nice to work with too instead of a cross head type drive.

[Oddjob]

I've used those dimpled titanium bolts a lot on my 1300 and whilst they are fine if the head sits horizontally, like it would at the front engine hangers, when the head is vertical, like the head is flat side up, I found that dimple filled with water, that dried with the heat of the engine and discoloured the bolt head quite quickly, I ended up filling the dimple with paint to stop it.

[DomP]

Oh b@gg@r, I ordered from Middletons but thought the 14mm headed M10 bolts were metric fine so ordered some nuts on Ebay, turns out they are 1.25mm thread pitch.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Oh b@gg@r, I ordered from Middletons but thought the 14mm headed M10 bolts were metric fine so ordered some nuts on Ebay, turns out they are 1.25mm thread pitch.

You are not alone Dom in finding confusion with metric threads - it does not help that some sellers do not seem to state thread pitch plus the parts manual might mention diameter & length but naff all about pitch or head size.

Many decades ago I had a simple alloy tool that was a rectagular plate with common british thread sizes marked on it (AF & BSF, BA etc). If you were not sure of a thread size you screwed your bolt in by hand to find the right siize. You could also check nut sizes by sizing a bolt then trying  your nut on an identified bolt.

It was a promotional tool at the garage where I worked - it came free with some red tins of fastners by a manufacturer - forget the brand name now something like Tewul ?

[DomP]

Oh b@gg@r, I ordered from Middletons but thought the 14mm headed M10 bolts were metric fine so ordered some nuts on Ebay, turns out they are 1.25mm thread pitch.

You are not alone Dom in finding confusion with metric threads - it does not help that some sellers do not seem to state thread pitch plus the parts manual might mention diameter & length but naff all about pitch or head size.

Many decades ago I had a simple alloy tool that was a rectagular plate with common british thread sizes marked on it (AF & BSF, BA etc). If you were not sure of a thread size you screwed your bolt in by hand to find the right siize. You could also check nut sizes by sizing a bolt then trying  your nut on an identified bolt.

It was a promotional tool at the garage where I worked - it came free with some red tins of fastners by a manufacturer - forget the brand name now something like Tewul ?

Yes Ted, confusing but thankfully it was only four nuts that I ordered in m10 x 1mm on Ebay.  Hopefully I'll get the lower half of the engine in the frame soon then when Bryan has finished reporting my barrels I can get it all together🤞

[davidcumbria]

Same here. Took me three purchasing attempts until I got the thread correct for the M12  foot peg engine mount nuts. I have got better at measuring an existing bolt with a ruler and counting along 10 threads to see if it s 1.0 , 1.25 or 1.5cm etc. unless you specifically select a fine thread all the stainless bolts sellers use  the standard coarse thread but there are plenty of tables which list all the metric thread sizes on google so you can home in on whether it’s what you need. It’sbeen satisfying to get to know this stuff - this week I was looking for a helicoil set for the carb drain screw m6 x0.8 fine - that was not easy to find. Problem if you get it wrong the postage cost for a small delivery from middletons is prohibitive so I think that’s why  I resorted to getting the odd bolt from china on eBay.