Author Topic: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber  (Read 4691 times)

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2023, 08:40:12 PM »
This might be irrelevant but.....

At the start of your thread you mention a blue light for left & green light for right in your photo it looks like a green wire going to the left side sensor or am I colour blind?
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Offline mo goldie

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2023, 09:09:46 PM »
well I said that they are around the 0.40 mark so hope they are ok Ash. oh I can get a set at £35 if they are No good off Ebay but do I take a chance ?

Yes roy i did email them 3 days ago but someone told me they are on a thanksgiving hols so might be why I have Not had anything back from them yet so hope they will get back soon.

and yes as long as I can get a spark at least yes I should be able to get it to run and do what you say with the timing light.


if you look at the picture you can just see the blue wire is indeed just visible on the left side and the that is the green coming out of the right side.

Oh just got some so Ha ho More Money but mrs said go for it ..... Oh she a keeper ha lol

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203341447581
« Last Edit: November 26, 2023, 09:17:32 PM by mo goldie »
Currant BIKES:

1980 Triumph Bonneville 750 T140/D Special Black & Gold
1962 BSA 650 Rocket Gold Star ( silver ) 
1977 Norton Commando 850 MK3  Interstate ( silver )
1977 Kawasaki KH400 Triple ( Green )
1999 Harley Davidson 1200S sportster Sport ( silver )
1975 Honda Monkey st70 Dax ( Blue )
1967 Honda CB450 KO Black Bomber

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2023, 09:46:20 PM »
well I said that they are around the 0.40 mark so hope they are ok Ash. oh I can get a set at £35 if they are No good off Ebay but do I take a chance ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203341447581

Not easy to measure the primary coil resistance without a decent multimeter capable of measuring very low resistance Mo. Make sure you are on 100 Ohms range when measuring !

Be very wary of aftermarket coils .. some have very low primary resistance .. ideally you need 5 ish Ohm coils.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2023, 09:48:06 PM by AshimotoK0 »
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline mo goldie

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2023, 10:10:27 PM »
yes I am taken a chance I know but don't know where to get a set from that will be good ?

I have a fluke meter that measure auto ....... I think any suggestions on where to get good coils from ?
Currant BIKES:

1980 Triumph Bonneville 750 T140/D Special Black & Gold
1962 BSA 650 Rocket Gold Star ( silver ) 
1977 Norton Commando 850 MK3  Interstate ( silver )
1977 Kawasaki KH400 Triple ( Green )
1999 Harley Davidson 1200S sportster Sport ( silver )
1975 Honda Monkey st70 Dax ( Blue )
1967 Honda CB450 KO Black Bomber

Offline mo goldie

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2023, 11:55:16 PM »
oh when they get here.... Ash

my first job will be to check them out to see what they read......if Not good they do take returns so that's good........ but like you say 5.0 is better that's what them at Common Motors say to use.
Currant BIKES:

1980 Triumph Bonneville 750 T140/D Special Black & Gold
1962 BSA 650 Rocket Gold Star ( silver ) 
1977 Norton Commando 850 MK3  Interstate ( silver )
1977 Kawasaki KH400 Triple ( Green )
1999 Harley Davidson 1200S sportster Sport ( silver )
1975 Honda Monkey st70 Dax ( Blue )
1967 Honda CB450 KO Black Bomber

Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2023, 11:57:12 PM »
oh when they get here.... Ash

my first job will be to check them out to see what they read......if Not good they do take returns so that's good........ but like you say 5.0 is better that's what them at Common Motors say to use.

It depends ... ignitions with capacitive discharge CDi use coils that are typically less than 2 OHms ... really depends on the type of electronic ignition,
“Alright friends, you have seen the heavy groups, now you will see morning maniac music. Believe me, yeah. It’s a new dawn.” Grace Slick, Woodstock '69 .. In the year of the Sandcast.

Offline mo goldie

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2023, 12:01:29 AM »
Yes well as I say them over the water say 5.0 with their`s ...... but where do you go ?
Currant BIKES:

1980 Triumph Bonneville 750 T140/D Special Black & Gold
1962 BSA 650 Rocket Gold Star ( silver ) 
1977 Norton Commando 850 MK3  Interstate ( silver )
1977 Kawasaki KH400 Triple ( Green )
1999 Harley Davidson 1200S sportster Sport ( silver )
1975 Honda Monkey st70 Dax ( Blue )
1967 Honda CB450 KO Black Bomber

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2023, 08:34:15 AM »
Worth an overview of wiring to electronic unit to discuss  ?

Ordinarily you'd have power to unit switched by ignition, earth competency to allow the coils to switch, trigger wire to sensors to control that switching (to earth) that goes to unit to toggle switching in time with cam etc. Power to coils and their earth routed to the unit to be switched up and down by the circuit control within that.

Is there wiring diagram with unit ?

Offline mo goldie

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2023, 01:59:50 PM »
Hi K2

here is a link to the insulation of the shockwave and a video too.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AEyHVfdNqkb4jftnu1B-2Vgs2qu_yUCR/view


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZT8GzZiMDY

all what they have said is what I have done...and double checked tripled checked too. ;D

Cheers

Mo
Currant BIKES:

1980 Triumph Bonneville 750 T140/D Special Black & Gold
1962 BSA 650 Rocket Gold Star ( silver ) 
1977 Norton Commando 850 MK3  Interstate ( silver )
1977 Kawasaki KH400 Triple ( Green )
1999 Harley Davidson 1200S sportster Sport ( silver )
1975 Honda Monkey st70 Dax ( Blue )
1967 Honda CB450 KO Black Bomber

Offline royhall

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2023, 03:13:28 PM »
My starting point would be the black earth cables on the mounting bracket. The one in the video has little chance of earthing as the frames paint is still on. Make up another wire from the same bolt and take it to the earth either on the loom or a good reliable earth on the frame somewhere. Suspect those dodgy red cable connectors as well.
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TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
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Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2023, 03:35:56 PM »
Yes, as Roy in that a check for definite volt + supply is there, also a check of earth competency as well.

Seems quite simple to fit Mo. Have you got the leds to show there's power and switching going on ?

Offline mo goldie

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2023, 06:12:38 PM »
hi,

yes checked all the earths are good and yes I have the led`s light up and when I try to go to time them as I said they do go out but Not at the LF mark they go way pasted it....... that's where I said to Roy about the timing marks. I have done a TDC with a Dial Gauge and marked the rotor so I Know where that is Now..... but still NO spark ?

Currant BIKES:

1980 Triumph Bonneville 750 T140/D Special Black & Gold
1962 BSA 650 Rocket Gold Star ( silver ) 
1977 Norton Commando 850 MK3  Interstate ( silver )
1977 Kawasaki KH400 Triple ( Green )
1999 Harley Davidson 1200S sportster Sport ( silver )
1975 Honda Monkey st70 Dax ( Blue )
1967 Honda CB450 KO Black Bomber

Offline royhall

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2023, 06:34:02 PM »
Is there no spark to either side? Is there power to the coils when ignition is on? This is very strange as the way it's built it''s like having two separate systems. For them both to fail, what's the odds. What's the common denominator here, what do both sides share. Silly question but you have removed the condensers haven't you.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2023, 06:35:48 PM by royhall »
Current bikes:
TriBsa CCM 350 Twin
Honda CB350F in Candy Bacchus Olive
Honda CB750F2 in Candy Apple Red
Triumph Trident 660 in Black/White
Triumph T100C
Suzuki GS1000HC
Honda CB450K0 Black Bomber
Honda CB750K5 in Planet Blue Metallic (Current Project)

Offline mo goldie

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2023, 06:42:55 PM »
No spark to either side Roy, the two modules one blue one green get there power from the horn + wire and go from them two power the coils then what I can make out the two pick-up`s send the trigger the coils....... did you watch the video ?

as I say all wired up right just No spark ..... i did have hair LOL going like Yul Brynner Now.

Oh yes condensers have been taken off yes
« Last Edit: November 27, 2023, 06:44:43 PM by mo goldie »
Currant BIKES:

1980 Triumph Bonneville 750 T140/D Special Black & Gold
1962 BSA 650 Rocket Gold Star ( silver ) 
1977 Norton Commando 850 MK3  Interstate ( silver )
1977 Kawasaki KH400 Triple ( Green )
1999 Harley Davidson 1200S sportster Sport ( silver )
1975 Honda Monkey st70 Dax ( Blue )
1967 Honda CB450 KO Black Bomber

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Timing problems on the 450 Bomber
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2023, 07:29:26 PM »
It is a bit weird to have no spark from the two separate units as Roy states.

The units (same as points) are only switching the earth wire to the coil  to make that spark. If the led is changing it should be doing that switch at least. It would still spark wherever the timing is set.

You can, with power to the coils, get them to spark by disconnecting THEIR earth from the ignition pack, then hold it against an earth scource, when you pull it off the earth they should produce a spark like that. 

 

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