Unusual question, experiences wanted...

[kaceyk2]

Oh, I am not convinced about bungee jumping being the same to trigger these events, it may do, I have never done a bungee jump yet, but If I did, I would seriously look at all the kit and have to convince myself that I was not going to die or I would not do it.
I think this may give the same result as the scientists dropping folk onto a safety net.

In the real life accident scenario, your brain has all those memories of folk who have died on motorcycles, all those mates, aquaintences, friends of friends, all those folk who rode out and didn't return..
In my personal case, having worked in an extremely busy Suzuki franchised motorcycle shop in the seventies, my brain has unfortunatly got case histories of hundreds of fatalities stored on its hard drive.
As I am sure most folks here has.

That given, I think when we suddenly find ourselfs in a seriously life threatening unexpected accident scenario where time stops and choices of action are played out in front of our minds eye, maybe in that "nano second" our brain is also "accessing" any possible knowledge (like our memories of other folks accident scenarios) that may help... but at a rate that we cannot access at "normal" times?
The awareness of minor, seemingly, trivial details, like how many scratches there were on the cars roof as one "flew" over it, and the colour of the primar underneath those scratches, is extremely interesting...

One would think that in another life threatening situation the same would happen, but the police are always saying for example, that folk who have been mugged ( and feared for their lives) or beaten up, stabbed and shot even, are notoriously bad at giving even an average description of the person who did it....
Sometimes even if the culprit is put right in front of them in a line up......
yet there were definately four scratches on the roof of that metro, and it had been resprayed because under the scratches it was blue and not green, I noticed this as I "flew" over at 70mph, in the middle of an accident that I thought was going to get me to meet granma sooner than expected .  ....

Its really weird?

[ST1100]

I'd state that also we motorcyclists are 'junkies' 

This method of transportation definitely occupies your mind and activates those particular areas way higher, as the one of the 'averange cager' coasting along in his steel-cuffin...
Seems we're permanently 'loaded' with some dose of adrenalin, enabling us of maintaining a way larger overview of the scenery ahead, scanning and identifying possible sources of danger and set the evasive maneuvers within fractions of a second.

Remember when starting riding I was (mentally) fully exhausted after like one hour or so, as there is so much to watch out for and compute...

[K2-K6]

I do think the brain is quite incredible and capable of many things that could be even too subtle for us to recognise as a skill.

Went by bike into central london last week and thinking about it accepting that you're operation of the bike is well embedded then all the other things in addition soon stack up like navigation (no sat-nav) prohibited lanes, no-turns, one way, re-routes, speed limits, monitoring cameras, parking zones (didn't want to pay) all other vehicles, pedestrians, surfaces/grip etc, started to rain and has high-grip that stops half way across roundabouts, It just makes me laugh when I'm told that women can "multi-task".

In all seriousness, many people are doing things that are a huge workload for the mind but do appear normal as part of a daily function, I guess that when you get to that Oooh bugger we're in trouble here moment then you do cease all the other stuff you were doing so plenty of processing capacity is available. Then It depends what you have in your own little library. Piece-a-cake really for us bikers.

[ST1100]

It just makes me laugh when I'm told that women can "multi-task".

No intention in sounding 'sexist' there, but I think that fems do 'tick' different by evolution.
While hunting males had to maintain focus over a longer period, and not getting distracted by things like '...oh, now that's a nice daisy here...' or to grow second thoughts when starting the attack on the cave-bear going like '...you really think this is good idea...' '...OK, lets talk it over...'.
I think that also things like teamwork, sense of orientation as well as the ultimate realization that the individual is just a small, totally unimportant 'fart' out there and everything else in this world is so much stronger, more dangerous, etc...

Observing fems in traffic or such, I fail to see 'parallel processing', more a shuffle change of random issues, each fully occupying...
Its like second No1 'traffic', second No2 'did I leave the stove on', second No3 'what will I buy at the mall', ... second No20 or 30 'traffic' again...

Keep in mind that this is just a theory, grown out of daily observations, and no rating of 'good' or 'bad' given... just 'different'...


I've also the impression that a motorcyclist is a way better car-driver as well, way more foresighted, fluid, dynamic, higher general awareness, spatial perception, etc... also a more 'relyable partner' in traffic...
So riding does train general skills and reflexes.

[kaceyk2]

I think one of the main differences between men and women manifests itself in the interest value of shopping.

If I want a pen, I will go into the very first shop that may sell pens and ask outright "got any cheap pens?" if the shopkeeper says "yes" and he isn't lying, and they are cheap, and he proves instantly that the pen works, I buy it and go.

However. Mrs Kaceyk2  does something different,
She goes into the stationary shop, checks out every pen, makes a mental note, then leaves without any pen.   She then goes into every shop she knows that sell pens and does the same.
Then she peruses all the shops that MAY sell an occasional pen.
Then all the shops that are not likely to sell pens but that may surprise her with an unexpected writing implement.
Then, and only then does she make a shortlist of the most adequate and cost effective pen.
having got her shortlist, she re-visits those lucky establishments, to re-check her findings.

while this is happening, I have lost the will to live again, and have gone to the only cafe in town where you can still have a brew and a ciggerette, but have to sit outside on the naughty boys bench.

When mrs kaceyk2 has reviewed her original shortlist, made a couple of revisions to the list, and thoroughly investigated every pen on the shortlist, she may then possibly buy one OR decide she doesn't like any of them enough to buy one today, and we will "see what they have in town on Saturday"

IF, and I say IF, it is my lucky day mrs.kaceyk2 will join me at the cafe with a small paper bag in her hand that contains a pen.
It does not end there, as all the way home she will fiddle with the pen and inspect it in an almost disaproving way, and then ask me "do you think it's OK?"

I have never answered these sort of questions with anything other than "yes, of course, i think it's a beautifull pen, such a lovely colour that suits your clothing and  matches your eyes, and looks ever so comfortable to use"
"No sweet, of course I am not 'just saying that'"
Sometimes,
When mrs kaceyk2 arrives at the cafe with (or without) an item like a pen, and I ask her if she wants a coffee,  she says, "yes a quick one because I have seen some shoes that......"

Gentlemen, I give you Mrs. Kaceyk2's shoe shopping exploits:   No, really , you can f, in well guess just how bad that gets for your selfs. Actually, I bet there is no Guessing involved.
But apart from that:

Four hours in TK max + three in british homestores/marks and sparks + Two more wandering round clares accessories, Must be worth at least four "goes" on the lady bumps, but to expect us to show any interest in perusing clothes or shoe shopping , I reckon has to count as "extras"

In the 1970's , If I remember right, it was easier, If the girlies did do shopping, then it must have been done in secret, If they wanted a lift to or from the pub, they brought a helmet, if they wanted a drink in the pub, they bought you one too.
They fed the jukebox whilst you played pool, and asked what music you wanted on.
Something has obviously "gone wrong"

I don't solely blame programs on the telly like Sex in the city, but have noted how this program over-emphasises the importance of shoes.

And that can have disasterous consequences for those poor souls expected to stand around and watch the female of the species trying to aquire what she believes may be essential to her continued happiness.

If there was an advert on the telly that said "man shoes" "come and peruse all of our man shoes...at the biggest man shoe shop in your area"  we would avoid it like the plauge, not because we feared it may have "village people" conotations, but because if the boots we have are Okay and not leaking or the sole doesn't need gluing on again, then why the hell do we want any other footwear?

Usually, if I polish my boots they are Ok again. Once a lace snapped, and I thought I would have to go all round town, looking for new footwear, but fortunately I made do with a length of green garden twine for a few weeks. I was quite happy with the green garden twine, it was strong and ultimately replaceable, AND I had a big ball of it...
But O no, mrs.kaceyk2 decided one day (whilst we were out food shopping in Asda which is bad enough)
that she would have "a quick look around town while we are here for some boot laces because you need some"
These are the sort of tricks girlies play, going into town for one thing, and then surprising you with a "while we are here I will just"

Needless to say, I went to the cafe with the naughty boys bench outside and sat there for a couple of hours waiting for a pair of bootlaces to arrive that I didn't want that much in the first place, for me it was a simple equation, 
How happy am I with the green twine, divided by hours I dont want to spend looking round shops where i might be required to give opinions ad hoc on girlie items, Times the amount of bootlaces I may be required to measure to see if they were long enough, multiplied by the shops I am not allowed to smoke in, X the lack of caffeine lost during the hunt for unwanted bootlaces.

I think you may have got me started................













 

[K2-K6]

Ooops, apologies for that Kacey obviously a deep seam of shopping observations to be mined there.

Perhaps take a computering device to the cafe and give us more of your thoughts while waiting for Mrs K.

I'm not sexist but it sets me off when I hear what's become a standard phrase of "men can't multi task" I do think this is born of male treatmant of women but it's the fundamental inaccuracy of it to an engineering type mindset that cheeses me off and I just want to respond with "ever tried to ride a bike in a busy city".

I do like the differences vis-a-vis male/female as I wouldn't want to go out with a bloke!

That's a funny word in isolation as well "bloke".

[ST1100]

However. Mrs Kaceyk2  does something different...

LOL! Yeah, also then the ways one experiences time can change dramatically...

But that's what I meant in men's target focus origins in prehistoric hunting...

...it sets me off when I hear what's become a standard phrase of "men can't multi task"...

Ah, that's only 'propaganda', just the same as the always ongoing '...men only have the one thing on their minds...' whilst in reality its exactly the opposite... 

Being passenger in one vehicle piloted by a 'multi tasking' fem, can grow to a quite worrying experience... the silent 'there is a stop sign...' can also stretch into endless seconds...
And lending a vehicle to such, likely results in an expensive and long visit at the car-body shop...

And what absolutely blows my fuse, is the fact that fems just always have to SLAM car doors shut with all physical force avail... 
Like the thing is their natural enemy, and therefore must be destroyed...
Those seconds, while the sound of abused material is echoing through the garage, can as well stretch painfully long... 

Try the very same at home, walk into the kitchen, open the fridge door 90 degrees and WHAM!... so eggs and other stuff detonate on the refrigerator plate at the backside...


But in this lack of 'parallel processing' might be the reason of the low number of females riding bikes.
And those who do, mostly seem to have some kind of an 'issue'...

Car driving females again always claim that their afraid of motorcycles...
Inquiring with 'why, for crying out loud?' you'll mostly hear that they 'always suddenly dart by out of nowhere'...
If you then draw the chain of evidence that they wouldn't be an 'out of nowhere' nor 'a suddenly' if 'she' would care to check her rearviews at least occasionally, cause a motorcycle is well noticeable there at you're six already at a distance of way over 2 clicks behind you...
So either just another sample of 'lack of multitasking'... or motorcycles do exist in a different continuum...

[RupertB]

The pen buying scenario is my mother-in-law's mode of shopping - having finally decided which pen to buy she would then convince herself that it was cheaper the previous day, but buy it eventually. The following day she will announce that she bought the 'wrong' pen, on the basis that either it is of inferior quality, or a different one would have written better, or 'it won't last' or some such failing. Predictable, irritating, consistent, and given that she is 82 and has always been thus, unlikely to change.

But on to more dramatic things - I am of the opinion that moments of acute danger do focus the mind, and it is replayed later in slow motion(provided you survived I suppose). I had one such 'moment' on a Norton Commando many years ago when I overtook a Hillman Imp (said it was a long time ago) on a straight but narrow lane. I had just passed the car when the back wheel hit a patch of ice and the thing went into a sort of tank-slapper. Basically I held the handlebars straight, and the rest of the bike went from side to side. I still remember considering all the options, and jumping off started as favourite, but was pushed into second place by the thought of being run over by a Hillman Imp. Oddly, I also remembered I was only third party insurance as well, which is not normally something you consider in a very alarming situation. I also remembered every piece of writing about bikes and skids, and eventually (microseconds that felt like hours) later, I shut the throttle and the whole thing snapped straight again and I carried on. Probably more luck than judgement, but the actual amount of information processed in the incident was astonishing.
You can also build up to speed, those of you good enough to have read my book will know I was a traffic cop for some years (I retire a week on Monday so will be able to speed with an even easier conscience from then on) - during a decent chase you would perform a staggering number of calculations in the heat of the moment. A friend of mine was driving when we chased an XR3 up a narrow alleyway with concrete slat fencing on either side. It got away with mucho damage and sadly we couldn't follow it through the gap it had got through. (They were caught a few minutes later but that is by the by) Anyway, we had a video camera in the car which showed speed and stuff, and my driver had gone up the alleyway at around 35 mph for maybe a hundred yards, no problem. We reversed out and didn't go over 2 mph in reverse as there was no more than 2 inches either side of the wing mirrors on our car. I don't think you could recreate that accuracy at speed in a test situation as the adrenaline would not be there.
Same driver, different passenger, lost it in a bend on another occasion and found themselves heading irrevocably out of control towards a jeweller's window which had concrete posts in front of it to stop ram raids. Passenger assessed all the factors, and calm as you like turned to the driver and said 'Brace yourself Shiela' which at least meant they were both smiling as the concrete bollards tore the gearbox out of the car and destroyed the front of the jeweller's shop.

The airliner that ran out of fuel due to lbs/kg mixup is this one by the way - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

[K2-K6]

That's a a good find RupertB, I new I'd read it originated from Canada but it was some time ago.

Bryanj, there is a fuel leak one in the wiki list going into the Azores.

Kaceyk2, the pen shopping would probably happen for Mrs K in a nano-second, but with your super processing powers it appears to happen in slow motion. You probably smoked a nano-fag and drank a nano-coffee in fractions of a nano-second really, just slooooowed it down in your mind!

Interestingly on the aircraft front I read something about (I think) that Qauntas A380 that blew an engine, in that even the normal crew were overloaded with failure info/alarms and had to use other experts onboard to help interpret the data coming at them. Isn't that combined nano-thinking?

[RupertB]

Couple more things - some almost on topic too! - Aircraft wise the Gimli one is one of the most amazing, plus the recent one on the Hudson following the birdstrike, as that one hapened with so little time to spare or consider alternatives, and also this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232
Slightly on-post now - at the risk of sounding a total anorak, which I am not usually, I did a number of years on Air Support in my County during which time the Matthew Harding helicopter crash took place http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/35069.stm
The pilot was far better than the reports indicated apparently (I knew a number of ex-services people who had worked with him) but the report reckoned he reached a point of mental overload where too much information was coming in for him to process and he had a sort of logjam. He was also in sole charge, and under pressure to complete the job on time, so had commercial pressures on top of operational difficulties. You will find a similar effect happening if for example you go from good driving conditions to bad (into a sudden hailstorm or cloudburst for example) and you start to find that the car radio and the conversation you were having become almost disorentating and highly distracting. First sign of overload is when the pilot/driver goes quiet. Good indicator of danger and time to shut up and let them concentrate. And turn the radio off. Without those extraneous distractions which do not affect your physical ability to9 control the machine, I reckon the brain has the ability somehow to accelerate your awareness and reaction and judgement speed.

Look at it this way - the mental processes which motorcyclists tend to have to manage are limited - unless you have a Gold Wing you are unlikely to be listening to a CD or cooking a meal while travelling - so your mental juggling continually deals with a finite number of issues more or less. But in a crisis or emergency of some sort you have to deal with them very very fast - the hyperspeed effect, and an extension of normal effects into extreme territory - when for example a minor skip of the back wheel becomes a slide, or heavy braking becomes a locked wheel. You know what has happened but maybe not why, and it is outside your physical experience. On four wheels you have more distractions which are not part of the driving process - music, hands-free phone, kids fighting in the back, and that irritating constant whining noise I seem to get from the pasenger seat. Oddly the wife never hears it, but she is always in the car when it occurs. Never worked that one out......

[K2-K6]

It is kind of rambling around the original post but interesting anyway, I ran a rally prepped car for a while and to share some non first line stuff during competition we duplicated both horn and washer buttons on the navigators foot rest as it's harder to hold push-in button under exciting conditions.

Always amusing when you took a passenger and anywhere near frightened them they'd be mentally treading on their brake pedal accompanied by either horn or windscreen washing.

Maybe more relevant, spent years using non-antilock brakes in cars and conditioned myself to release them when they locked but when I drove a friends car fitted with anti system we played around with it a bit and I couldn't bring myself to just hit the brakes and hope. Even with best attempts from high speed I still tried to control it below locking point indicating to me that a learned response can still work under pressure.

Of course old bikes have anti-lock anyway, you just can't squeeze it with enough force to lock the tyre!

[kaceyk2]

Ah, getting back on topic, I just spotted this, and funnily enough, yesterday the postman brought me and mrs kacey this very book, someone had sent it to us.. how odd.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6926500.stm

Someone else mentioned they had seen a tv show where topfuel dragsters have claimed they can recite the alphabet twice in the five seconds it takes to do the run...... off to investigate finding the source for that one. Hmmm..

[ST1100]

the mental processes which motorcyclists tend to have to manage are limited

Totally agree, when adding 'new toys' like intercom, stereo, PMR radio, GPS (that one in particular) one has to take it easy for a while, as those are an  irritation and distraction at the beginning; ignoring that fact is simple overestimation of your own capacities thus calling for disaster to happen, especially the GPS can grow to a stress-factor... one have to learn on how to sort the 'priorities' while on the move with all that stuff...
Practiced with the Garmin in the car on known routes for a while, just to get properly used to that thing before nailing it onto my touring bike...
GF declared me being out of my mind when using it for doing groceries and such... after the first real bike use (2 weeks France) she committed how good it was practice with that thing at first...

Riding occupies way more of your senses then things like driving a car.
If your head holds i.e. 5ltr, you'll need about 4 while riding, but only like 3 for driving a car...

[Bryanj]

The one when driving that really gets me is how the people blithely joining the motorway expect a 53 foot long 8 foot 6 inch wide 44,000Kg behemoth to leap into the middle lane instantaneously just so they can undertake it it and piss off into the distance!!!! And i have developed this new style of driving that comes with old age:--

If the other vehicle is not indicating its intentions, its not comming my way so i can do anything i want!!

[ST1100]

...how the people blithely joining the motorway expect a 53 foot long 8 foot 6 inch wide 44,000Kg behemoth to leap into the middle lane...

Oh my... has this ignorant idiocy spread out to the UK already...? 

When riding on a two way m/way and this happens while you're aside the trailer of the semi, you're going to experience another time-stretching...
Nailing the horn-button, dowshift and whack it... even with 100hp avail those semis suddenly stretch 'infinite' while you observe the gap ahead between tractor and safety rail growing narrower...