400 four knocking noise.

[Clem2112]

All six holes tapped very well.
Plenty of WD40 helped to get the chips away.

After a thorough clean up the gear, basket and plate were assembled with the new rubbers.
Used red loctite thread lock on the screw threads and torqued to 6 lb ft.

There is now no rotational slack between the gear and basket.

Before assembling the clutch I dressed the basket slots on the drive faces using a fine file and finished with emery paper. The friction plates thicknesses were checked at 2,6 to 2,7 mm and look fine.

[Lobo]

Ok - a bit embarrassing I know...

I'm home for a day soon, and will fit my 'new' / renovated clutch basket courtesy of ttr400 (Kevin) & his cushs. Problem is, I don't bloody remember ever seeing the 25mm thrust washer (# 90455-333-010); very likely its always been there, ie simply remaining in place on the main shaft each time I've dismantled the clutch.

So, question.... if it was missing, would it be obvious, because whilst rattly, the current clutch works / feels / adjusts fine.

... and (2) is there anything 'fancy' about this washer... or can I substitute a good similar sized washer?
If anyone has one in their hands can you measure its dimensions please (primarily thickness) & I'll root around my Brunei tool box before next trip home to save time / grief.

Ta,
Simon

[Clem2112]

 .. Don't miss this item it out as it does a crucial job !

The thrust washer sits behind the clutch assembly and usually stays put because a film of oil will make it stick to the shoulder on the input shaft and its hole diameter fits the shaft.
I had to look for it and convince myself it was there....you'll see slight wear on each side so keep it the same way round if you take it off.

The top hat shaped sleeve in the basket's bore reacts against this washer when the clutch nut is torqued up. The washer is replaceable and cheap too, shafts are always expensive !
It will be a fairly precise ground width and be made in a specific steel grade for doing its job I would think.

Without the washer in situ, the basket would wear against the shaft as the two rotate at different speeds when the clutch disengages. The sleeve and washer provide a bearing for the basket to spin with a very slight end clearance.

 Not sure, but the basket may hit something without the washer in place - with the hex head screws used in the kit the clearance will decrease a bit.
 
btw... No big change in the sound down there on my bike but glad I did the fix anyway. One of the rivets had lost part of it's head !

[Lobo]

Cheers Clem2112,

I am indeed quietly hoping it is in place... certainly if there's significant thickness to it I'd surely expect a horrible graunching from within on start up. My missus btw takes glee in that she always thinks I have a hand full of parts whenever I've rebuilt something ... but in truth I'm meticulous and I sure haven't thrown any washer away. If it's missing it'll be from long ago, and a lesson to use a parts diagram on any rebuild versus 'put it back the way it came out'!

It is not easily replaceable, hence my question.... the part (& its later part #) are both discontinued and unavailable on all Internet searches (inc DSS). I have though sourced a 2nd hand piece @ £9 (ouch) inc p&p.

Disappointed to hear you still have clutch rattle... having heard Tom400's 400F & its silky idle.... and indeed my own's silky idle when 'basket left off.... I'm hoping for more. Will be really ****ed off if it remains... have spent a lot of effort sourcing this noise & trying to fix it....

Thanks again,
Simon.

[Lobo]

Further to Clems recoditioning of the clutch drive cushs... my experience.

Drilling off the rivet heads easy and straight away the whole assembly fell to pieces as the original  Cush rubbers 'shrivelled'. As Clem commented; they were not symmetrical.... tho' my take on this is simply the forces on these cushs always in the same direction ... ie compressing them from one side only over their 35'ish years causing the miss-shape.

The rivets! By crikey. They did come out... eventually... but with a drift & wallop enough to wake the devil.. (I only managed this by grinding them flush to the 6 bosses ... ie completely eradicating any possible flare in the protruding rivet shank.)

The rivet holes perfect for the M5 tap with no work... and to ensure the thread 100% perfect I tapped from the back (ie inside of the clutch basket) outwards... giving the supplied M5 bolts perfect starting  thread versus chewed thread from 'iffy' starting of the hand tap had I tapped from the outside.

The rebuild satisfying... the cushs a tight push fit, absolutely no play now. Bolts tightened beautifully, with RED Loctite of course.

This Saturday fitment - I do hope this bloody rattle has been put to bed!

Thanks Kevin - a great kit.

Simon

[Lobo]

Yahoo!

Fitted the 'new' clutch last night & knocking / rattle gone; a big result.
Getting worried.... little left to do on the 'bike(s), ..... will the missus tolerate another machine...?

(er, nope)

[tom400f]

Fantastic news Simon. Persistence pays off. Hopefully it's not (only) age that sees these rubbers off as mine is obviously old but not worn. Great work you've done on your bike.

Meet up when the warm weather returns perhaps.

Tom

[Lynx]

That is good news. Well done. I've just ordered a kit from Kevin too.

[Lobo]

Thanks guys,

To be honest has been 'fun' getting to the bottom of this... have learned heaps. Thinking of applying to F1 for next job.. can fully service the clutch in no time! (so MANY bloody practice runs!)

Next year Tom, catch up again,
Thanks for the help,
Simon.

[Lynx]

I need another set of clutch basket damper rubbers but I can't get a reply from TTR400. Does anyone know if they are available from anywhere else?

[ttr400]

Hi Guys,
I'm away traveling at the moment on my CB400F. I flew with bike from JHB to New york and rode across the USA and then up to Canada done around 20000KM's so far. flew from Vancouver to Frankfurt toured around Italy for a few weeks. i am now in the UK (Telford, Shropshire). just done a major sercice to the little 400. to get to the point, i had a clunking sound appear around 13000 km's, thought it might be the clutch. clunking was pretty loud at idle but ok when revved up.
Stripped the clutch last week and found the cush rubbers had disintigrated (I don't think the material can withstand extreme hot oil and heat etc).
So a message to all who i have supplied with my damper kits, check after a few thousand km's that they are still ok.
Put my bike through some pretty hard riding and extreme temp going through the Desert in California so they help up quite well considering.
I have a new design workied out, but will only get to it when i get back to SA.
Incase anyone is interested some specs and how parts help up etc.
520 EK brand chain with sprocket specialist sprockes (alloy rear). Excelent chain, only req adjusting after around 5000km's. just replaced the rear sprocket. so 19000km's on the rear, chain and front still good.
Tyres: Avon AM26 90/90 front, 100/90 rear. still in fair condition, rear squared off slightly but front has plenty miles left on it.
Rims: Morad alloy type, due to load spokes required checking as they lost tension on the rear every few thousand km's. front has excessive run out(must have done some damage somewhere) lost the balance weight and slow speed wobble appeared in Canada, just had it balanced again better but need a new rim.
Fuel consumption: averaged so far around 26km's per liter, or 62 or so USA MPG .
Front brake: pads as new, same for rear shoes. but front brake pivot now has some play.
That's it for now.
Going to the Stafford show in October if anyone is around that area.
Kevin (TTR400)

[Clem2112]

Some trip that !.... You mentioned an upcoming trip on your website.... On the African continent I assumed...going for a world record ?

Btw ...What colour were the dampers??
The ones you sent to me were a dark blue material. So far so good.... I hope!

[Lynx]

That's an amazing trip. You'll have to write a book on it when you get home Kev.

[ttr400]

Yes they are blue, i did have some red ones but the material was the same.
I plan to come back next year in the summer, to do some more touring around. anyone fancy a ride to Vladivostok?
Kevin

[Drew400]

Bravo,

I know where to come when I eventually start up my project and find some rattle/knock!

Cheers and enjoy!

D.