Author Topic: CB400F Frustrations - Not firing, low compression (Cyl Block now off)  (Read 11230 times)

Offline ManicGTI

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EDITED title to current status.
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Ok apologies for the lengthy post!  I'm having difficulty coaxing any kind of life out of my CB400F.  Not a massive surprise as it was last taxed on the road in the mid-90's!

I'm really looking for a bit of guidance on an order of attack...what to check next and in what order, all advice welcome!

Intro thread and background to the bike: http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,7399.msg44632.html#msg44632

I understand that there's a ton of things that need checking over before the bike will likely run 'well', but as a starter for ten I was expecting for it at least to attempt to fire up...It's turning over but it's not even trying to splutter into life :/

Status so far:

FUEL SYSTEM:
- Carbs were gummed and locked up.  Following advice on here I left them in hot water to loosen, then stripped and cleaned them with carb cleaner, including jets etc. Replaced all O-Rings along the way.
-  On reassembly the bowls leaked badly.  I've bought a rebuild kit (non-genuine) and replaced the Float Valves and pins, but left all the other parts as the OEM ones at the moment.  On reassembly (3rd/4th time lucky!) now only one of them leaks.
- Tank cleaned, new petcock, fuel hose, in-line mini filter and some fresh fuel.
- The carbs are roughly synced on the bench, but not balanced properly, just rebuilt as they were.  I have not put the airbox or filter back on.

ELECTRICAL:
- Checked Continuity across the starter circuit.  Clutch switch is duff so I have bypassed it with a jumper in the headlamp for the time being, now cranks on the electric starter perfectly fine.
- Checked continuity of Ground side of Coils and Engine Stop Switch circuit.
- Both Coils input sides appear to have a resistance of ~ 5.2 Ohms.  A couple of the HT leads havd kneckered ends so I trimmed them a little and refitted the Caps.
- Battery is new but admittedly undersized as I was planning on relocating it.  Its an AGM Fireblade battery, I have it sat on an optimate so it has full charge.
- Brand new spark plugs fitted.  All four are getting a visible spark when I crank with teh plugs lying on the head. 

My feeling at the moment is that no fuel is getting into the engine, I can't see any fuel on the plugs.  However, I've tried cranking it with some easystart into the carbs and not even a splutter.


TO DO:
- A 'proper' compression check, adaptor for my compression tester is ordered.
- Check static timing, although I cant see why this would be out.

Other things to check?
- Valve clearances, will this make a difference at this stage of things?
- Pull the carbs, clean again and replace idle jets etc with those from the rebuild kit?
- Anything else to check on the ignition system?

Dave
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 11:23:08 PM by ManicGTI »

Offline Bryanj

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Re: CB400F Frustrations - Not even attempting to fire.
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2015, 02:28:45 PM »
Have you checked that the points are actually connecting and opening as corrosion would stop the former and age the latter

Offline mike the bike

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Re: CB400F Frustrations - Not even attempting to fire.
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2015, 02:43:40 PM »
I would have thought the points were ok since the plugs are sparking.
Two things have caught me our in the past...
Make sure the points cam is not 180 degrees out and
Check that enough air is getting through.
Since it won't start, the plugs should be covered in petrol.  If they're not then why not.
Where's that 10mm socket got to?

Offline ManicGTI

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Re: CB400F Frustrations - Not even attempting to fire.
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2015, 04:02:12 PM »
Thanks for the replies guys,  I started this thread to re-inject some enthusiasm as I got thoroughly pissed off with the whole thing at the weekend.

I've had the cover off and the points look in great condition, no corrosion and they open/close aif I slowly crank it on the kick starter with cover off.  I haven't adjusted them as I am getting spark to the plugs.  It's the NipponDenso setup, I'll dig out a photo.

- Points Cam, thanks I'll have a look at this.  Any way to check visually?

- Enough Air getting through - I haven't refitted the filter or airbox so there's no restriction other than the throttle sliders.

Dave

Offline ManicGTI

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Re: CB400F Frustrations - Not even attempting to fire.
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2015, 04:03:59 PM »

Offline mike the bike

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Re: CB400F Frustrations - Not even attempting to fire.
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2015, 05:36:12 PM »
The LH points (blue)  power plugs 1 and 4.  RH points (yellow)  power 2 and 3.
Considering 1,4 for a moment...
When the points open,  the coil for 1 and 4 should make a spark.  This should occur when F1,4 shows through the timing hole in the points plate.
Once 1, 4 is timed, then do 2,3 as it's on a sub plate.
If and when you get it going, beg or borrow a strobe light to get it spot on.
Where's that 10mm socket got to?

Offline ManicGTI

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Re: CB400F Frustrations - Not even attempting to fire.
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2015, 09:41:20 AM »
Thanks, intended to have another look this weekend but haven't had the time I need!

Float heights- I did set these, and redid after changing the float valves. I'll recheck, hopefully the leaking one was just a mess up on my part.

Choke- Yes, used the choke, tried in all sorts of state of throttle and choke.

Emulsion tubes- Yes, pulled and cleaned it all. Having said that, I'm inclined to pull the carbs and go over them again to be sure. A colleague at work has suggested I use the full rebuild kit, despite they're rep for not being great quality it should get it running and can always swap back in the OEM parts afterwards.

Offline ManicGTI

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Re: CB400F Frustrations - Not even attempting to fire.
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2015, 09:42:02 AM »
Adaptor for compression tester has just arrived, so I'll get on that and check the points timing.

Offline Nurse Julie

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Re: CB400F Frustrations - Not even attempting to fire.
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2015, 11:13:13 AM »
Thanks, intended to have another look this weekend but haven't had the time I need!

Float heights- I did set these, and redid after changing the float valves. I'll recheck, hopefully the leaking one was just a mess up on my part.

Choke- Yes, used the choke, tried in all sorts of state of throttle and choke.

Emulsion tubes- Yes, pulled and cleaned it all. Having said that, I'm inclined to pull the carbs and go over them again to be sure. A colleague at work has suggested I use the full rebuild kit, despite they're rep for not being great quality it should get it running and can always swap back in the OEM parts afterwards.

I wouldn't dismiss using the Cruzinimage carb kits due to low price. I replaced all the bits in my 400 carbs a few weeks ago with the Cruzinimage ones and the carbs are working beautifully
LINK TO MY EBAY PAGE. As many of you know already, I give 10% discount and do post at cost to forum members if you PM me direct.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/julies9731/m.html?item=165142672569&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562

LINK TO MY CB400/4 ENGINE STRIP / ASSESSMENT AND REBUILD...NOW COMPLETE
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14049.msg112691/topicseen.html#new

Offline Bryanj

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Re: CB400F Frustrations - Not even attempting to fire.
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2015, 11:40:06 AM »
Before you do a total strip spray a small amount of ether or "Easy Start" into the airbox and see if it coughs, if yes its carbs or settings if not its electrical. NOTE THE EMPHASIS IS ON SMALL

Offline mike the bike

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Re: CB400F Frustrations - Not even attempting to fire.
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2015, 11:59:57 AM »
Where do you live, one of us on the forum may be local to you.
Where's that 10mm socket got to?

Offline Bodd

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Re: CB400F Frustrations - Not even attempting to fire.
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2015, 12:53:30 PM »
Mine at least attempted to start but wouldn't run when I reassembled and installed the carbs, once I used the settings in these diagrams it solved the problem and ran fine, I'm not saying it will solve your problem but it's a good starting point.

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Offline ManicGTI

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Re: CB400F Frustrations - Not even attempting to fire.
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2015, 12:10:04 AM »
Fantastic, thanks for those!

I'm based in Balham, SW London. Thanks for all the input folks, I'll give the above a go and see where it gets me, including pulling the carbs again and attempting to set them up better.

Due to unforseen circumstances I had to spend the weekend away from home, hoping weather clears up and I can get some time in the evenings on it as May is super busy and moving to North London in June!

Offline ManicGTI

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Re: CB400F Frustrations - Not even attempting to fire.
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2015, 12:11:38 AM »
Was it just one picture attachment to your post Bodd?

Offline Bodd

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Re: CB400F Frustrations - Not even attempting to fire.
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2015, 01:26:40 AM »
Was it just one picture attachment to your post Bodd?

Yes, I clipped 2 diagrams from the supplementary manual pdf and made them into 1 graphic. PM me your email address and I will send you the whole file.

 

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