Frame and engine numbers .

[atlsec]

Hi Guys,
               I have been asked recently by prospective buyers about my frame and engine numbers and I have come to the conclusion that no one knows the full story .One person said there should be no more that 500 difference as it is a K0 ,as K1`s that he worked on had about the same difference .My research has shown that there could be as many as 9500 difference between engine and frame on K0`s alone . This info comes from America and shows 44450 bikes sold but 53300 engine numbers allocated at the same time .We all know the story of the porosity on sandcasts and the breaking chains on K0`s . How can it be only 500 difference from sandcast to the end of the K1 production ?. Does anyone have any concrete evidence on what is correct as it affects prospective purchasers . 
                                                                  Cheers , Alan .

[UK Pete]

I thought there is a couple of hundred at most between the two , however what does it matter as long as a k0 has a k0 engine a k1 has a k1 engine etc, it would be no good if you have say an f2 in a k0 for example, if top  money is asked for a bike its best to have the engine frame numbers it left the factory with
pete

[atlsec]

Hi Pete,
            I agree totally with you ,however this several hundred business seems to affect everyone ,myself included . I must stop this at once . But after 77000 K1`s and 50000 K0`s how can the difference be the same at the beginning of the run and at the end ?. Surely if no 1 K1 had 400 difference no 77000 must be considerably higher .People still broke chains etc and needed new engines . I think that what you said at the start is right ,if the engine is a K0 and the frame a K0 then that`s it .I do not think you can prove either way what the original configuration was . Honda has no records .
                                           Thanks again , Alan .

[JamesH]

Alan, I have several 750's as you know, ranging from K0-6. Several of my bikes have 'close' ranges, but at least 25% fall Outside of the range of 500 apart. I have a very low mileage k2 that has an ~1800 digit variation (engine is 1800 lower) so I really wouldn't get too hung up on it. I'm certain the engine and frame numbers you have were original to that machine..

[UK Pete]

At the end of the day alan you are right , there is no written evidence from honda regarding this, i remember someone on the us forum saying about the 200 difference, and as i say as long as the engine is correct for that model it should be fine, i have several 750,s and have not been too concerned about  the #range infact i will have a look now you have bought it up

[Sgt.Pinback]

Hi Pete,
            I agree totally with you ,however this several hundred business seems to affect everyone ,myself included . I must stop this at once . But after 77000 K1`s and 50000 K0`s how can the difference be the same at the beginning of the run and at the end ?. Surely if no 1 K1 had 400 difference no 77000 must be considerably higher .People still broke chains etc and needed new engines . I think that what you said at the start is right ,if the engine is a K0 and the frame a K0 then that`s it .I do not think you can prove either way what the original configuration was . Honda has no records .
                                           Thanks again , Alan .

No.

Engine number and frame number are documented in the HONDA warranty paper and in the HONDA service booklet that came with the bike.

Regarding German bikes, frame and engine number is documented in the original registration letter (KFZ Brief) that came with the bike when bought new.

[JamesH]

Uli ai'm afraid I don't agree here, especially with US import bikes dealers rarely correctly documented both engine and frame numbers as part of the sale process. And American Honda certainly didn't centrally document these. Where is your source of this info?

[atlsec]

Hi ,
      I have spoken directly with Honda Sports America  and they have no records of what went with what . They can only tell you what year a bike was imported from Japan and that's it . I have spoken to three different people at Honda and they all said the same thing . I have never seen a service book for a cb750  but I do have an original handbook for a k2 and it says always quote frame no for frame parts and engine no for engine parts implying that they were never the same . Has anyone got a service book to confirm what has been said ?. If there was a service book the numbers would be entered in by the dealer not Honda as is the case with cars .
                                                                    Cheers , Alan .

[steff750]

  yes i would agree that probably 500 numbers apart is a good rule of thumb ,
but even that means either way as i have seen bikes  with lower engine numbers than frame and vice versa higher engine numbers than frame,
 and the later the frame and engine numbers you have ,the wider apart they get lol
the largest gap i have is on a very late k0 1040*** and 1039*** is 461 numbers apart and 358. i can imagine that these figures run about same through all the model range getting further apart as more bikes was made
while my other three earlier k0,s 1015***to 1018***range between 129 and 263 numbers apart ,so as production increased so did the the gap in the frame and engine numbers. of the top of my head i would expect a gold k0 model to start at about 1027*** so as long as your frame and engine numbers started after that figure and was about 500 digits apart .i would probably accept that, and buy your bike not lol
i love these k0s but to me gold was never meant for the UK market and for the very same reason why i wont buy a sandcast this is my choice and i don't begrudge anybody else buying them its their choice ,but saying that if either a sandcast or a gold k0 was to come my way i wouldn't set light too them 
BTW i have engine and frame numbers only six numbers apart but they on two different bikes lol them slant eyed japs cant see nowt
 

[Trigger]

You old boys worry too much

[steff750]

  init its only numbers trigg just like money only numbers 

[Sgt.Pinback]

Uli ai'm afraid I don't agree here, especially with US import bikes dealers rarely correctly documented both engine and frame numbers as part of the sale process. And American Honda certainly didn't centrally document these. Where is your source of this info?

James , to be honest, I'm not a fan of US import bikes. Missing history is one of the reasons.

My source is the paperwork in my folder.

[Trigger]

Uli ai'm afraid I don't agree here, especially with US import bikes dealers rarely correctly documented both engine and frame numbers as part of the sale process. And American Honda certainly didn't centrally document these. Where is your source of this info?

James , to be honest, I'm not a fan of US import bikes. Missing history is one of the reasons.

My source is the paperwork in my folder.

On German, Italian and Dutch bikes. Not UK or USA

[Sgt.Pinback]

I don't know if HONDA Germany still has that info which frame with  which engine was sold here but I guess  they had it for warranty purposes.

I think there must have been a warranty card and a service booklet with VIN and engine no.  in any country.

[UK Pete]

My sandcast is 5369,      engine 5479, one of my k0,s is frame 9574          engine 9427

k1 67101 engine 67553, so there is certainly no pattern but all within the 500 range and the 1969 bikes within 200 range