Honda-SOHC
Other Stuff => Misc / Open => Topic started by: Bryanj on June 02, 2020, 06:57:26 AM
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Talked to him via pm on the US site not long back Ken. Recent comments from him suggest he is still doing the kits
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I hope he is... I think I should order one now to add to my growing list of items for the 400 (when I finish the other 2 projects)
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Probably wouldnt help me...lol I just shot him an email.. hasnt bounced back yet but... doesnt mean it wont.
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And just as I hit Post it bounce back as undeliverable... grrrr.
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That would be great... :)
Cheers
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Yep, mine is ordered and paid for..
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I assume his ignition is a transistor based replacement for switching the coil current and still retains the points and auto advance.
I have just been asked to fix these ignition systems for a 500/4. Complicated or what !
http://www.racetechdev.co.uk/
[attachimg=1]
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As you suspect Ash, the hondaman system is taking the timing signal from points + advance retard operation to then switch coil load electronically.
If systems move to static electronic triggered timing they effectively have to work in reverse by default as they cannot fire in advance of a signal that hasn't yet arrived. Ordinarily they time at maximum advance, then use internal method to retard the ignition to give what we recognise as low speed timing.
Hondaman reported on USA site that he had faults due to components scourced from UK which he repaired for customers.
I wonder if he's using something like the module in this link http://www.vintagemodelairplane.com/pages/Ignition/AmplifierTest01.html these amps sit between a mechanical distributor triggering front end and a conventional coil to handle load switching.
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In this link to my video-clip, I used a special high-voltage ignition transistor to switch the coil from a signal generator. Can't remember the exact part numbe,r as it's all at work and I am off at the moment. It may have been this :
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1916279.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxWtR_m80Fc&feature=youtu.be
this is the Hondaman setup :-
[attachimg=1]
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Mark has amended that wiring diagram now Ash, in fact that's why I contacted him as I spotted a discrepancy which I thought I'd ask him about. In the schematic you can see it says to disconnect the condensers and on the website it says you can revert to stock within 2 minutes, which wouldn't be true as you'd need some tools if you've disconnected the condensers. So I asked him and he explained that his site regularly gets hacked by the Russians and that's the only backup of that schematic he had at the time. He's since changed it very slightly, it looks the same until you see them side by side. Now the condensers stay plugged it, so reverting to stock is just a matter of disconnecting the bullet connectors near the rear engine hanger and plugging in the old wires to the points plate. He has also added the on/off switch into the wiring diagram, instead of getting power from the black wire it's now taken from the black/white wire so using the on/off switch kills the new unit at the same time.
Just had an e-mail from Mark, of the 6 he's currently making he only has 3 left available but will have the 4th next week. He's seeing what the postage costs are of combining them all in one box etc and will come back to me soon. He has mentioned that if he has to use a box, most of the internal space will be empty and it will cost $80, that's $20 each. Compare that with the $38 standard charge and the greater chance of incurring import duties etc and the postal charges this side of the pond it may be better if that's the case to order yourself. We'll see how it pans out.
If you decide you don't want to go ahead with it thats fine by me.
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Just reading this post and have only a basic knowledge of electrics (not electronics). Just out of interest, what the advantange of this system that retains the points? (There is obviously an advantage but as a novice can't understand!)
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If a full electronic decides to give up its recovery and or walk, with Marks system if the box plays up you just swop a couple bullet conectors and you are back to normal points.
Points wear out because of the current they have to handle, Marks system drops this to milliamps so they last incredibly longer
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Thanks Bryan, even with my limited electrical knowledge, the drop of current makes sense.
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At £60 for a set of points and the same again for condensers it makes sense to make them last as long as possible.
I wonder if you could use those sh*tty Daiichi pattern points with his setup? Or do they suffer mechanical wear as well as points contact electrical erosion?
When I got my 1st 400/4 in 1977 I designed and built a Cdi and fitted it .. it was still on the bike when I sold it and it did 20k miles with the standard Denso (ND) points triggering the CDi. The timing never needed adjustment after fitting it, which is testimony to the quality of the material that the heel part, which 'rubs' against the auto-advance, was made from. I had one component failure during that time pretty early on of one of the storage capacitors .. to begin with I was using caps. used in Pye valve based colour TV's but they were paper dielectric. Then improved polypropylene caps became readily available so I used those and never had a failure after that.
However, I reckon with bikes that are not going to do many miles you may as well stick with Mr. Honda's standard setup.
Talking of points ..I know that Daiichi ones have a bad reputation but how about Futaba ones ? Anyone got any experience of using them as I have a NOS set for my Bomber, as in picture attached. Often called F.E.W. (Futaba Electric Works).
[attachimg=1]
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You old boys worry tooooo much ;D I have a 750 that has just turned 40,000 miles and is still on its factory fitted points, work the price of points over that amount of mileage and it is nothing.
Out of all the SOHC's we run (all on points ) only one has needed replacing over many years and too many miles ;) Not sure if this is down to when the engine gets a service so do the points.
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As I said in my earlier reply I fitted a Cdi to my 400/4's back in the day, so no real 'proper' experience of points wear on Honda 4's but had a lot of Honda CB250's back in the day covering lots of mileage and replaced many sets of original (ND & Hitachi) points because of electrical erosion on the points contact material.
Speaking of Honda CB250/350K points .. I got these for my CB250K0's/CB350K1 I am restoring. Genuine Honda, 286 part no. back plate (ND) and ND points but look at the cable lengths compared with a 'standard' one. I suspect they were for the rare CYB350 because I bought them from a guy who sold me other -670 Honda parts.
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2][attachimg=3][attachimg=4]
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I used to use a diamond file on all Honda four points when sevicing and if not "flat" within a few strokes replace them.
If i had a regular customer i knew that all they would need is a light clean and regap
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Could be interesting but would need to be verified as to suitability https://simonbbc.com/rover-v8-condenser-1976-on/ a condenser from well regarded supplier that could fit and work with the Honda points plate.
The engine spec calls for close to same as original fit Honda but wider tolerance, with the cost being low it's maybe of interest to try a couple for physical fit and performance.
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Airfreight costs have skyrocketed due to the lack of planes in the air.
Our work Airfreight costs have risen by approx 500% since Covid really kicked in with flights cancelled etc;
Freight cost should go back down but maybe not to the previous levels.
I am contemplating adding in the Blade fuse holder.. just for the reliability factor... hmmm I should get onto that if I am going to do it....lol
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Ken
Any update from Mark as I'm hearing on other forums that postage is indeed only going one way .... up
Simon
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I know he has a waiting list for engine and swingarm rebuilds so maybe just busy
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My Unit arrived late last week... so about 10 days to Australia which given it can take double that to get something from Melbourne to Sydney is pretty good.
We packaged and as stated with extra bullet connectors and detailed instructions.
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I've just ordered one direct from Mark ... I think the postage is only going to get worse so took the plunge ... even at the increased costs it is still the cheapest system around
Will report back
He did say he is working on more at the moment
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I haven't got mine yet .... typical
I'll let you know when it lands if there is duty etc and what it is
Simon
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Can you confirm that you had to pay $118 Simon?
Yep - I can confirm :)
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Arrived today ... no import costs / VAT etc
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200721/16e13a340210c14db95e5e50a529906d.jpg)
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Was a value declared on the box label Simon?
I can't decide which is better, a group buy or individual. If group we save around $25 each, we then may get charged customs as the value of the box goes past the threshold for VAT, factor in a re-postage charge of around £5 and it's getting iffy.
If we get charged VAT and post office charge then it's likely to be more expensive than an individual buy, however that's a lottery, sometimes they charge you VAT and sometimes they don't. VAT is chargeable after £15 value, customs after £135. By rights you should have been charged VAT as I'm betting he put the full value on the label.
You may be OK as it was labelled repaired part $15