Honda-SOHC
SOHC.co.uk Forums => The Black Bomber Board => Topic started by: mo goldie on October 31, 2023, 12:25:20 AM
-
do anyone know what the thread is on the cylinder head on the black bomber...... as trying to get some to replace the old rusted steel domed Nuts with stainless steel ones ?
I got 8 domed ones and they don't fit seems as if they are a more of course thread as I tried one and it wanted to cut a new thread so must be some other thread on the studs. if it is the ones I got they only seem to do one size of thread on Ebay so if you know where I can get some would be great help.
Mo
-
Depends on the age of the bike. Threads changed around 1966-67.
Most M10 nuts you find in the UK are 1.50 pitch, Honda used 1.25 pitch after 1967 ish. Also called metric fine.
Something like these may do. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204483946909?hash=item2f9c31699d:g:DaQAAOSwLURgL-Ep&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4ErnCunwyYv0cQ%2FD4GvwbxJttqFKNFBKu96PPzSgtxXaphHoNtkYzfhwy%2FRv8juSOJELPcE3xX%2F2XUg7OEV3oobzPIHegFV%2FSqu%2Br%2FmDU%2Bvl0h4IDziZA5u%2FFJTxJIeiea9AsmElmuqytO8KUANJ59yuzpCNpxy1OkkO0h0NhCqKtmrQSxnlbrF9IgzXa7G0trfNOg0hrdfVOCuL65jzn65Y0c83bGANQxKvXhH%2FD35OGQsCKKLX7MJJGrWINPLlJ57mDSTAUBwvsYUy1zaoX2g6FfHFHD6ZlLy57%2Fw213%2Fa%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR4DYgbfwYg
-
M10 x 1.5
-
If that’s so Ash, then why does he say the nuts he bought have a rougher thread than the studs.?
I’m not sure what the bomber uses as I’ve never worked on one or owned one, my reply was pure logic, if the nuts he bought had a coarser thread then the studs must be metric fine and an M10 metric fine is 1.25. My logic wrong?
-
I have to go with Ken on this one, OP says those nuts he bought are coarser, not finer and I have never seen or heard of an M10 coarser than 1.5mm pitch, only the 1.25mm finer version. The domed rear damper top nuts on 350,400 and 550 fours are M10x 1.25 - I have some in stainless. It wouldn't make engineering sense to clamp a cylinder head down with coarse threads where the wedge angle is greater and more prone to loosening. I've never worked on a Bomber either and I've been wrong before though - just ask Christine 🤓
Ian
Just a thought - the stainless ones I bought are next size up across the flats compared with Honda - check there is clearance for your application.
-
Count ten threads on stud and then measure in mm.
1.25x10= 12.5......1.5x10=15.......well you get the picture :) should be easily seen what pitch they are in situ.
Or try the bought nuts onto rear shock mount to verify.
-
Yea you are right slapped wrist naughty boy Ash
https://www.zed-parts.com/product-page/m10-1-25-dome-nut-low-top-zinc17mm-spanner-a-f-jis
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
-
Its a good bet because Soichiro was an aircraft man with many influences from that arena incorporated into the design, the "waisted head and barrel studs one of the most prominent in balance of load distribution, material elasticity and torque requirements. Fine pitch threads being an intrinsic part of accurately setting torque for such a design. :)
-
As folk here will know I am always confused by Hondas metric threads so reassuring to know I am not alone.
-
Ah, Soichiro, my hero!
Mo,
A great asset to any restorers toolbox is a set of thread pitch gauges and if you can still get them - Zeus charts, although Mr Googly has most of that latter info these days.
I've restored many offerings from BMC and Jaguar where there is often a 'from the factory' mix of fine/coarse Metric, UNF/ UNC and even BSF/Whitworth/BA on the same car - having gauges and charts takes any guesswork out of the game.
Ian
-
As folk here will know I am always confused by Hondas metric threads so reassuring to know I am not alone.
All explained here:- I was getting confused with M12 which DID change from 1.5 in 1967 to 1.25 pitch.
[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]
-
As always,
That's great info Ash,
I just checked availability of Zeus charts and they are still about but better still, someone has published them in PDF form. No need for jig boring coordinates (except maybe Trig - maybe that's short for trigonometry :) ) and other pages but it's all here:
http://www.moonshiners.org.uk/MZ/zeus.pdf
Ian
-
I knew about the JIS thread bulletin Ash, hence why I mentioned the year of the bike may be of note, before 67 he may have had the old JIS threads and after he may have the modified JIS thread. I took the chance he had the new.
Glad to see we got to the bottom of it in the end, which is the priority, not how we got there.
-
I knew about the JIS thread bulletin Ash, hence why I mentioned the year of the bike may be of note, before 67 he may have had the old JIS threads and after he may have the modified JIS thread. I took the chance he had the new.
Glad to see we got to the bottom of it in the end, which is the priority, not how we got there.
M10 never changed though . It's M12 that's the confusing one ... e.g. the C110 has both M10 and M12 domed nuts on the rear shock mounts and the M12 changed in '67 from 1.5 to 1.25 pitch. Another one is the M3 screw that mounted the emblems onto 'toaster' tanks, as that changed in '67 too.
-
I didn't have access to the bulletin though Ash, so I made the assumption that as most of them changed it was likely that so did the M10. As it turns out that was the wrong assumption but seeing as I was possibly asking him to spend money on something I thought I'd best hedge my bets so to speak. No harm done, we got there in the end.
-
Hi everyone
well sorry about the confusion, what I meant was that the course threads are on the studs NOT the Nuts.
and it is a 1967 Bomber and it has the course studs as I said so it must mean then that they are the 1.50
pitch threads Not 1.25, which is what i got so don`t fit but they did fit the rear shocks so used two anyway ;D
but still looking for some 8 X 10 mm domes nuts then with a pitch of 1.50 ?
Cheers
Mo
-
I will check my Bomber frame. https://www.accu.co.uk/dome-nuts/62138-HDN-M10-A4?uk_google_shopping=1&c=3&gad=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwy4KqBhD0ARIsAEbCt6hwCPdYsf2Aj_vd9agaVRy-6knA51E5YzLffR5jbOoSvN7g3nuHC6oaAjfHEALw_wcB
-
oh
am I right or wrong here..... is the 1.50 tread the course or the 1.25 thread ?
as they have some on Amazon and there chart say they are 1.50 pitch if they are the course thread I will get some ?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/YoiYee-Pack-M10-Dome-Nuts/dp/B0BXT7JVGN/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=m10%2Bstainless%2Bsteel%2Bdome%2Bnuts&qid=1698788361&sr=8-8&th=1
-
The lower the pitch number the finer the thread.
I think of it as you need more turns with a fine thread to gain the same clamping effect.
-
Try these.
Middletons are very good, usually polished with no visible surface markings.
https://www.stainlessmiddleton.co.uk/32956-metric-nuts-domed
Plus most 10mm nuts will be 17mm not the usual Honda 14mm, Middletons do the right spanner size.
-
are ok thanks........... but just ordered the ones from Amazon they were 10 for £4.59
so will try them should be here tomorrow ;D
-
hi
well that was a waste of time and Money they did Not fit From Amazon... so they are Not 1.50 they must be the 1.25 thread.
Just looked on what Oddjob sent the link for and it was Not clear...... is it 10 for £12.95 or for One ? :-[
Must be a walking bank I think ha ;D
-
are here we go again ;D
just found a company called MrMegapack and got 10 X M10 X 1.25 pitch .....please be right this time my wallet can`t stand No more ;D
-
Try these.
Middletons are very good, usually polished with no visible surface markings.
https://www.stainlessmiddleton.co.uk/32956-metric-nuts-domed
Plus most 10mm nuts will be 17mm not the usual Honda 14mm, Middletons do the right spanner size.
As an aside Ken, have you thought about exhaust studs in Titanium, like these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114056592306 would be pretty corrosion resistant for bikes.
-
I don't understand.
You clearly say in post 15 that the studs thread is 1.50. Yet you go and order 1.25 nuts in your last post from Mr Megapacks.
My link was to Dave Middletons metric domed nuts page, NOT metric fine as those are another page. So those will be 1.50. No idea where you got £12.95 from, they are listed in single price. A 14mm headed domed nut, the correct spanner size BTW for a Honda, are £1.98 each, to buy 8 will cost you £23.21 inc VAT and P&P.
Middletons are NOT the cheapest out there but they are excellent quality and most importantly they are the correct spanner size, 17mm headed nuts on the cylinder head may not even fit, especially if some sit in recesses.
-
Try these.
Middletons are very good, usually polished with no visible surface markings.
https://www.stainlessmiddleton.co.uk/32956-metric-nuts-domed
Plus most 10mm nuts will be 17mm not the usual Honda 14mm, Middletons do the right spanner size.
As an aside Ken, have you thought about exhaust studs in Titanium, like these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114056592306 would be pretty corrosion resistant for bikes.
I've already got stainless ones Nige, like the allen key socket feature though to fit them. The problem I found was getting them the same size as the existing studs, as in the amount of thread on both ends and the right amount of non threaded. I had to compromise a little on my fork bottom studs for instance, they were the correct length but one end had more threads on than the other. I got round it however.
-
Thought for the OP, put one of the bike's 8mm bolts beside the 10mm stud so that the threads interlock as that'll act like a thread gauge to tell you if its fine pitch or not.
-
I don't understand.
A 14mm headed domed nut, the correct spanner size BTW for a Honda, are £1.98 each, to buy 8 will cost you £23.21 inc VAT and P&P.
Middletons are NOT the cheapest out there but they are excellent quality and most importantly they are the correct spanner size, 17mm headed nuts on the cylinder head may not even fit, especially if some sit in recesses.
Pretty sure the 450K0 had 17mm AF nuts Ken in that location, borne out by the Service Bulletin. Someone told me that Honda UK imported a massive amount of 450's in one batch in 1966 and because the bikes were unpopular, they were still trying to get rid out of showrooms in the very early 1970's ( seem a few '72 reg's myself) so chances are the bike is pre the iso-thread change. I still need to check my frame for the pitch of the shock mount stud. Another thing on the Bomber was that some 'ordinary' hex nuts were flat on one side and chamfered on the other.
-
well what can I say I got it wrong then...........as they must be 1.25 oh well live and learn as they say.............. we all make mistakes...as the dalek said climbing off the dust bin.
we will see how them ones go ha
oh I have checked the shock mounts and they are 1.50 as the new dome nuts fit them fine ;D
-
Seems very big Ash, not like Honda at all.
Live and learn Goldie, live and learn.
-
Seems very big Ash, not like Honda at all.
Live and learn Goldie, live and learn.
Here is a pic of a friends 2.5k mile, totally unmolested, UK market, 1966 Bomber ... note the large cap nut on the shock top !
Mo or is it Goldie? :D here is a link to original Bomber pics .. nice reference for you.
https://www.dropbox.com/home/Micks%20Crawley%20Bomber%202.5kMiles
[attachimg=1]
-
Doesn't look as nice as the 500 upper mount nut though does it?
I think as time went on Honda started to tidy things up, make them more modern looking. Just my theory.
-
Doesn't look as nice as the 500 upper mount nut though does it?
I think as time went on Honda started to tidy things up, make them more modern looking. Just my theory.
You desperately need to get a 60's Honda mate ;D ;D
Isn't 17mm A/F the industry standard for a normal M10 nut?
Those big nuts looked the dogs b*llocks on my 1950's Silver Cross Pram.
-
I’ll pass Ash, anything pre 1967 I’m not interested in, they just don’t float my boat. Whilst I can appreciate them for what they are, I’m just think they look dated, like something pre war, like everyone couldn’t let go of an idea of how things were supposed to look. It was the introduction of the 750 that changed the game, the 500 refined that image, the Z1 took it another step further. To me that’s the golden age of motorcycle design, when they went monoshock is where I draw the line.
17mm may be the standard size but not for the Japs after they changed from JIS to the modified JIS, I think that made them look again at stuff like spanner sizes for nuts, 12mm for M8 threads, although firms like Yamaha and some others liked 13mm better, I think Honda looked at stuff like that and thought, let’s make it easier to identify the bolt size, why have M10 and M12 as 17mm AF, let’s make M10 14mm AF instead to differentiate them. Just my theory of course.
-
Hi Ash
Yes Mo is fine mate.
and they are the ones that I have got on my black Bomber too...... and thanks for your help he don`t apricate the old bikes ha.......the goldie bit comes from My Bsa RGS plus the others lol.
Cheers Mo
-
I found a Black Bomber original 17mm AF dome nut and it fits both a 1971 CB500K0 frame and a 1964 CB72 Frame so pretty sure original was M10x1.25 Mo and this tallies with the 1967 Honda threads Service Bulletin (i.e thread pitch was unchanged after 1967 but AF reduced from 17mm to 14mm). So a bit of a mystery why yours is 1.5mm pitch. But hey-ho if it fastens up OK then all fine.
-
well what can I say but the new Nuts turned up today and yes indeed they are M10 1.25 pitch thread and A/F 17mm
and all on and looks great Now so well chuffed.
cheers all
Mo
-
So ling as you’re happy, that’s all that matters.
-
oh one more thing just to ask anyone........ there is a small amount of play in the swinging arm, I packed in some more Grease via the grease nipple but made no difference ...is there meant to be any play at all or is a bit ok ?
-
No play, even a small click can make it fail an MOT or at least get an advisory.
-
oh one more thing just to ask anyone........ there is a small amount of play in the swinging arm, I packed in some more Grease via the grease nipple but made no difference ...is there meant to be any play at all or is a bit ok ?
By sheer coincidence on my FB listed this week: This is usually worn and you may need bushes as well. Not sure if anyone one makes in bronze... Trigger or Julie may know?
[attachimg=1]
-
Any play is too much, snap up the collar as it wears more than the plastic bushes
-
I wonder if you could get stuff like the collar hard chromed? I've got a couple of ruined ones from the 500/550.
-
I wonder if you could get stuff like the collar hard chromed? I've got a couple of ruined ones from the 500/550.
Would probably cost more than my NOS one is up for grabs for :) But agree if no NOS around it may be an option.
-
Many years ago i had the ends of one turned down and thin sleeves put on, couldnt do the grooves and the man that machined it said it wasnt hard at all
-
Hi Ash hope you took the new one off for me lol as paid Now ;D
-
Hi Ash hope you took the new one off for me lol as paid Now ;D
Marked as sold on Facebook but no PayPal payment received yet Mo.
-
oh was sent not long after I emailed you Ash. I will look again Now .................it say waiting needs you to create and account to accept transfer ?
-
oh was sent not long after I emailed you Ash. I will look again Now .................it say waiting needs you to create and account to accept transfer ?
Hmm doesn't sound right . PayPal you just enter recipient email PayPal address and it has always transferred for me.
I have nothing on my PayPal either asking me to accept payment.
I will PM my PayPal again but don't worry parts are yours and ended Facebook sale of them.
-
Could be a mistake in entering the email address so Paypal doesn't recognise it.
-
well all sorted out now with the payment lol.......... so all goodo ha. been trying to get the shaft out undone the Nut on the near side and tried to knock it through but gave up for now as might damage the Nut or the tread on the Shaft as it seems to be so tight in there. unless I am doing something wrong ha. ;D :-*
-
oh forgot to say Ashley
you said about the bushes and who might Know are .....Trigger or Julie may know?
But who are they so I can ask please ?
as it would be good to get some bushes to go with the Collar :D
-
Julie's username is Nurse Julie, Trigger is Graham you can send them a personal message on this site.
-
Thanks Ted
I have just sent a PM so see if they can help me out with the bushes.
Cheers Mo
-
David Silver can get you Genuine ones Special Order (probably from CMS in Holland). The K0 is different than the later 5-Speed K1 onwards 450's
Genuine Part Number is:- 52108-283-300
https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/by-part-number/hpart_52108283300/
-
Hi Ashley
yes looked at dave silvers and they did Not have them.....so I did go to CMS and have ordered them from there and with that part Number of 52108-283-300 too so hope they are right. Julie just got back to say she can`t get any for the CB450K0, so went CMS to try as said.................. as everyone all seemed to not have things now... I wonder why lol.
so hope you got all paypal payments now ?
cheers Mo
oh that shaft is tight in there I have tried hitting it but don't want to damage the threads on the Nut or sharft....is it meant to be that tight ? :(
-
Bomber 283 parts NOS are extremely rare. After all they stopped making them in 1967. All payments received and sent this morning signed for delivery. If you mean the bolt that goes through the sleeve . It shouldn't be tight but after 55 plus years who knows.Could be some corrosion set in.
-
Hi Ash thanks for that.
and yes I do mean the the long bolt that go`s though the collar and it was meant to have all been restored so should not be any corrosion but who knows till I get it all apart to look. but if it was done like I was told the swing arm would Not have play in it .... so I am glad that i am doing all the work Myself to get it right...... then if there is a problem blame me ha ;D
well that's what I have done to all my bikes is had to strip them down to carry out work that has been done by some one else :-X
-
Can you turn the hex on the bolt? If so try getting somebody to turn it whilst hitting the other end. If there is a grease nipple on the threaded end either pull it out or use a tube or bar with hole drilled in the end to avoid crushing the nipple. Bit awkward applying heat as I guess the paintwork has been restored.
Just checked and cant see nipple at the threaded end. You could put nut on wrong way round partially and hit the flat face to get it started
-
yes hex turns on the right hand side where the Grease nipple is..so No hex on threaded side but i have now tried to turn the hex and hit it from the other side so think it will come out with an bit of help..... so Hope I will do that over the next week or so,,,,,,,,,,,,, as got to get parts first lol
Oh forgot to say Ash.............. I canceled the parts from CMS and done what you said and got them from Dave silvers but have to wait a couple of weeks they said to get them in but all were cheaper Than CMS too and I got some more parts extra too. 8)
-
yes hex turns on the right hand side where the Grease nipple is..so No hex on threaded side but i have now tried to turn the hex and hit it from the other side so think it will come out with an bit of help..... so Hope I will do that over the next week or so,,,,,,,,,,,,, as got to get parts first lol
Oh forgot to say Ash.............. I canceled the parts from CMS and done what you said and got them from Dave silvers but have to wait a couple of weeks they said to get them in but all were cheaper Than CMS too and I got some more parts extra too. 8)
DS won't let you down ordering from CMS Mo.
Worth considering how to get the old bushes out whilst you are waiting for the replacement bushes. Or even try the new collar (will probably be with you tomorrow) in the existing bushes. It may be that you will get away without replacing them if the old collar has worn in preference to the bushes.
-
yes that's better to order close to home is what I thought Ashley..... i have been to dave silvers a few times and meet Freddy Spencer there a few years back and been round the Museum a couple of times well worth a look Ha.
yes I will see about getting the swinging arm out soon and do what you say try the New Collar in the old Bushes first seems to be a good Idea.
had my mate and his dad come round today as they both have Honda supper hawk and a CL350 ......... and were well impressed with my black Bomber and what I have done to it........ which is great praise indeed as they are mint what they have got.
-
Hi Ashley
How did you send the Collar..... as it Not turned up ?
cheers
Mo
-
Hi Ashley
How did you send the Collar..... as it Not turned up ?
cheers
Mo
Yes deffo .. it was 2nd Class Signed for and showing as delivered and signed for yesterday
[attachimg=1]
[attachimg=2]
-
Hi Ashley
Well I have Not got it and it was Not me or my other half that signed for it and even asked My next doors and they have Not had anything either Dam post office again :(
i will ask again But Not had it mate.
cheers Mo
-
Check your recycle bins, that looks like the postie signed for it and just dropped it somewhere he thought was safe.
-
Well that's a real shame if they have lost it as it's a MEGA rare part NOS.
Leave it till Tuesday, as I am away on business and I will chase up Post office. It's covered up to £50 but if lost will take an age to refund me so I will just refund you and wait if its lost. What's the point in having Signed For when they don;t even get a signature off the recipient.
Evidently from PO Website 'Signature on delivery was reinstated on 1 May 2022'
-
Hi
I am Gutted.......... someone has singed for it for sure and don't Know what they have got..... yes they can`t get round the back of mine to put in bins. and there is No place for a post person to leave it anywhere other than my neighbours where we look out for each others parcels, but as Ashley shows some one has signed for it :'( so the post man Must have been a Twat....sorry but I am Gutted.
Cheers Mo
-
Yea I am gutted too because the NOS parts I have, were 'harvested' over ten years from times when parts were still around.
I guess neither of us will lose out money wise in the end and I will refund you before I get the money back from RM, if it doesn't show up. But that no recompense for the actual part, which the only other person selling one in the USA are selling for twice the price, and that's before import duty, USA shipping etc.
Here is the parcel you are looking for, I even got a photo !
-
Yes you are so right Ash........... well I have got onto RM and lodged a Complaint and they done a search as they use GPS when there is a signed for parcel......and they said that it was sent and signed for by someone other than me at a different Address Obviously....... so I said can they tell me who so I can then go get it..... But No its data protection :'( but said it was within 7 mins walking from me, so she said that she has sent a complaint to the dept where I live and they will send the post person back out to the place he dropped it off to hopefully re-get it back ( I hope so ) I stressed that it is a part that is No More available so how Important it is, she did say it can take a few days to do that so will keep you up to date as and when I hear.
So fingers Crossed I will get it back ha
Cheers
Mo
-
I hate it when Data Protection is used to obstruct common sense by large organisations.
Unfortunately like lots of well intended legislation it is not what the legislaters intended as an outcome.
-
That sounds like a glimmer of hope then Mo...fingers crossed.
Lesson learned .. I think I will put a mobile number and email on the label in future then at least if a parcel goes to the wrong address, there is an easy way for the recipient to contact the sender without reverting to snail-mail or getting in touch with the Post Office.
-
Yes Ashey
keep fingers Crossed .............. I have had that before that I got some ones packet he was streets away so took it round as soon as I could he was well chuffed.
but its Now sunday and had nothing ............... so Might be one of them Dishonest people ......... and thought it was there christmas till they opened it up and see a bit of steel .............. :'(
Anyway keep thinking positive so the other half say so will Try.
-
Hope the parcel turns up, we went through a phase of getting mail for an address on the estate behind us. No similarity in the surname or street name. Only the house number was the same.
Local postie told me it was something to do with the way the rounds were sorted by postcode batches by machine.
-
Yahoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oh Sorry got carried away LOL
well here we go to start with I got a post man going by the house this Morning and asked him about did he Know anything about my parcel going missing ? He said he had been told before he left the Post office to go to the house first where one of his Colleges ( The Nutter ) had left the parcel, so he went and No one home so he left a red ticket to say they had been given a parcel that was Not their`s
so with a Bit of Morse ( TV detective ) I worked out where it was two streets away. so I thought if they were Not there how would a post man get it back..... so i went round at 5;00 pm and the place was in darkness :'(
so went back at 6:15 pm and Lights on.........so are a woman came to the door................. and as i said Yahoooo I got it all I got it ;D
Cheers All Mo
-
Well done private investigator Mo ;D
Great youve got it sorted out.
-
So pleased you now have in your possession Mo.
Sorry for the hassle you had getting it delivered.
-
I'd have asked why they hadn't come round with it when they knew it wasn't theirs.
-
well I did ask her why she said she been Busy.......... I wanted to say so have I but still found the time to do the running around to get it tho........ and twice too.
But all good Now........ Thanks again everyone for all the help and Thanks ashley for selling it to me 8)
Cheers a happy mo ;D
-
Hi Guy`s
Just an update on the Bomber, well the parts came from Dave silver so I made a start this morning took off the rear Mudguard and the rear wheel and got the shaft out only to find there was Not much Grease in it what so ever, anyway the bushes looked ok so I done what Ashely said and the New old stock Collar fitted in a treat with No worries. so put all new parts in ( so got a new set of bushes for spare ) fitted it back in the frame and there is No Movement from side to side Now so all good,
and the up and down is nice and smooth too. I found out also that the Grease Nipple was Not letting any grease go in though the shaft so heated that up with a blow lamp and cleared that all out just need to force some more in to make sure that the cavity is all full up unlike it was so must have been why it got worn in such a shout time as was only done about 3 1/2 years ago so the bloke said who i got it off. and it had only done 1,500 miles....... but ha Ho all done now.
Happy man
Mo
-
The book says grease every 1500, i say grease every journey
-
We discussed on another thread about lubricant, specifically grease type with some consideration to use a black molly CV type grease in these.
I'd favour that as properties of very high resistance to pressure and normally sited in limited use / movement type joints.
May want to consider this, I use it also for headstock bearings. Highly resistant to being displaced and hugely repellant to moisture etc.
-
I prefer MolyD for those locations as well Nigel.
-
are ok
what do you use in the Engine of a Black Bomber or should I say what's the best to use......... if there is such a thing Now ?
-
are ok
what do you use in the Engine of a Black Bomber or should I say what's the best to use......... if there is such a thing Now ?
I feel there's good evidence (significant thread of discussion on here) to use a modern synthetic in these engine.
Concerns about camshaft longevity, supply to that location and the heat with consequent "clagging" in the high heat crankshaft oil passages, then coupled with oil pump type, all have the potential to be helped by one of these oil types.
No its not because its more slippery, but much more about consistency of viscosity and pace of flow given the architecture within it, that's in my view :)
-
are ok
what do you use in the Engine of a Black Bomber or should I say what's the best to use......... if there is such a thing Now ?
I feel there's good evidence (significant thread of discussion on here) to use a modern synthetic in these engine.
Concerns about camshaft longevity, supply to that location and the heat with consequent "clagging" in the high heat crankshaft oil passages, then coupled with oil pump type, all have the potential to be helped by one of these oil types.
No its not because its more slippery, but much more about consistency of viscosity and pace of flow given the architecture within it, that's in my view :)
Nigel,
Interesting about the oil....although this tread is in danger of massive drift!
Do the 250/350/360 engines fall into this synthetic oil category that you are suggesting. They are very similar as I understand. Can you pint me to the thread please.
Jerry
-
It's this one Jerry http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14515.0.html there's some intriguing and very in depth record from Jensen in running his 450 over extended period.
I do think the twins generally are in the same category with regard to oil, yes.
-
Probably because early twins were all roller big ends not shells
-
It's this one Jerry http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14515.0.html there's some intriguing and very in depth record from Jensen in running his 450 over extended period.
I do think the twins generally are in the same category with regard to oil, yes.
Nigel,
That was a long read and some of the stuff went in, but some went through!
The thread is quite old from 2017. Just wonder what the outcome was....or did I miss a link.
I do know that when I tried a 10/40 on my CBX many years ago. I had to drain it fairly quickly as to use someone's quote, it was making a bid for freedom out of every seal/gasket. Returned to dino and it all dried up. Some comment on using it with new seals and gaskets only makes sense on rebuild though.
Cheers,
Jerry
-
"Returned to Dino" Love that quote, so descriptive.
Lots of comments about leakage using fully synth in old machinery, semi less leakage but is it worth the risk? Might as well stay with Dino oil until it's not practical anymore IMO.
-
"Returned to Dino" Love that quote, so descriptive.
Lots of comments about leakage using fully synth in old machinery, semi less leakage but is it worth the risk? Might as well stay with Dino oil until it's not practical anymore IMO.
Ken,
I am happy to use part synthetic. That seems OK
Cheers,
-
That's good new then, saying that the CBX is a lot more modern than the SOHC engines most members have, I wonder if semi is ok in those?
-
It's this one Jerry http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14515.0.html there's some intriguing and very in depth record from Jensen in running his 450 over extended period.
I do think the twins generally are in the same category with regard to oil, yes.
Nigel,
That was a long read and some of the stuff went in, but some went through!
The thread is quite old from 2017. Just wonder what the outcome was....or did I miss a link.
I do know that when I tried a 10/40 on my CBX many years ago. I had to drain it fairly quickly as to use someone's quote, it was making a bid for freedom out of every seal/gasket. Returned to dino and it all dried up. Some comment on using it with new seals and gaskets only makes sense on rebuild though.
Cheers,
Jerry
I have found fully synthetic very searching on older cars particularly for the rear main crank bearings, luckily my late Mums car was an auto so it did not cause any issues.
Oddly enough the drip would dry up after a few days as the oil additatives in the form of plasticisers would fix it.
Not tried semi on my bikes yet as worried about clutch slip.
-
Ted,
I use semi in my CB360 and CB750 K1 as well and indeed my 2005 CB1300 and that is very new at 18 years old..haha! No problems yet. "Semi" is vague prefix on oils. The actual content is undeclared, on the bottle at least, but might be found on a relevant website.
Currently using "3M" Part Synthetic from Halfords. JASO and MA2 rated. Good price, £27.99 for 5 litre bottle. Ok so far. CBX is takes over 4l for an oil and filter change, so 5l is useful in that respect.
Cheers,
Jerry
-
It's this one Jerry http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14515.0.html there's some intriguing and very in depth record from Jensen in running his 450 over extended period.
I do think the twins generally are in the same category with regard to oil, yes.
Nigel,
That was a long read and some of the stuff went in, but some went through!
The thread is quite old from 2017. Just wonder what the outcome was....or did I miss a link.
I do know that when I tried a 10/40 on my CBX many years ago. I had to drain it fairly quickly as to use someone's quote, it was making a bid for freedom out of every seal/gasket. Returned to dino and it all dried up. Some comment on using it with new seals and gaskets only makes sense on rebuild though.
Cheers,
Jerry
I have found fully synthetic very searching on older cars particularly for the rear main crank bearings, luckily my late Mums car was an auto so it did not cause any issues.
Oddly enough the drip would dry up after a few days as the oil additatives in the form of plasticisers would fix it.
Not tried semi on my bikes yet as worried about clutch slip.
To collect a few things together and take them out of this discussion for practical purposes, I'm specifically referencing camshaft problems in the twins when describing oil type etc
I'd not put the CBX or all of the fours in that category as they seem to be quite comfortable when run on decent oil and that oil kept in good condition. Cam bearings and lobes are quite generous in their proportions for these engine which don't get into that worrying category that you'll often find twins compromised by this specific wear.
I think you're right Jerry in that we could step it into another thread to look at specific circumstances related to the twins and facilitate more open discussion to see if there's more interesting avenues that twin owners could consider.
-
Nigel,
Quite right. Fine by me, maybe another discussion of similar ilk....petrol as well. It has always been a big variable depending on where you live...
Maybe not?
Cheers,
Jerry