Honda-SOHC
Other Stuff => Misc / Open => Topic started by: Lobo on February 16, 2015, 03:11:48 PM
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Ladies / Gents...help please; I've not a lot of experience with ebay.
Recently 'won' an ebay auction on a 'better than new' SS50, rebuilt at a cost of £4000. (apparently). (got it significantly below this number) Lots of glowing words, including the fact that it has V5 (dealer selling for a friend who could no longer use it).
I paid a deposit & it was due to be delivered to my dad's / Basingstoke last Saturday.
Except on Sat a one sentence email "The Honda will be delivered Sunday 16:00" (the seller doesn't do small talk / social niceties)
I write back along the lines of "Fine, don't forget to send the V5 along; I'll complete it & send it DVLA"
Shirty reply, "I'm a dealer, I know about V5s and it's me who has to send it off"
My reply, "Ok, but I still need to see it / sign" before I hand over the balance"
His reply, "Looking for it..."
And then, "Lost it... will refund your deposit"
I said not acceptable; and that a replacement V5 can be got from the DVLA...
Today's email, "I can't get a V5 easily, and besides someone else wants to buy it without the V5. Will refund your deposit" (why would anyone want a mint / expensive bike without a V5???)
So guys.... I've all the time in the world, and can be bloody minded if I want to be.
And in this case I do.
In the last few minutes I've sent him a copy of the ebay advert which clearly stated the V5 is present. My gut feeling is that he's been offered a better price since the auction ended & he's trying to get out of the deal.
Best way to go about this... I'm determined to make trouble! (and of course I realise that its unlikely I'll get the bike if he's determined not to sell it)
Simon.
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He has entered into a legally binding contract with you on e-bay, and it works both ways, if you failed to pay for the item he could take legal action against you, and he is legally obliged to let you have the item, or you can take legal action against him.
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Hairy - is that really true though? As a distance purchase the buyer can cancel within 7 days. Not sure about the seller.
I have won things for cash on collection and when I get there the item is rubbish and I just say sorry it's in poor condition and walk away. Point I am making is that "ebay is just a venue" (a phrase they are fond of trotting out I can tell you). They may bring you together but no more than that. The seller can cancel the completed auction (ok buyer has to agree or a "case" is opened) but it's all just huff.
I could be wrong and I suggest, Simon, you do the ebay case thing but as you are getting your deposit back there's no loss to you (apart frrom the bike you had set your heart on). Else what, courts? Seems unlikely.
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The fact is it is a legally binding contract, and as he is a dealer more reason he should stick to it, if you really want the bike and the hassle then let him know your prepared for legal action, if that aint enough to make him reconsider then open up a case with ebay but dont be palmed off, keep all correspondence
If you dont want all the grief then shout it from the roof tops how bad he is, let every one know just how devious he is social media/ forums etc
pete
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Something similar happened to me.
Bought a Remus Powercone for my Tiger but the guy quoted £35 shipping. When I said "Don't bother - I'll collect it" he relisted it and sold it to someone else.
You can't leave bad feedback for a seller (I spoke to eBay who were very helpful, but they are paid by the seller and obviously know where their loyalties lie...)
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Sorry to hear about your hassle Lobo, very stressful. Yea report him to eBay and see how it pans out but I suppose anyone can worm out of it saying item was lost, damaged etc and not sure how you stand there.
Do you have a link to the original auction?
eBay is a minefield but I must say I have made some great contacts with people, who have become good friends but also had some major disappointments with rare items that were rubbish or items where the seller never sent the goods and you have to resort to a case with eBay/Paypal.
Steve thought it was the other way round, you can leave bad feedback as a buyer but not if you are a seller?
Ash
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Thanks fellas,
Love this forum!
My last email to him...
"David, agreed, I've not seen it. But you wrote "the bike is excellent and £1,000 cheap", and the seller wrote, "this classic bike is better than it was in the showroom in 1977".
And on those 2 accolades, alongside the ebay photos I'm prepared to accept your words.
I've done all that's required of me, including checking up (before bidding) that you could hold it a couple of weeks. You / the seller have had all this time to check / realise V5 etc in place.
The ebay ad clearly states that the bikes V5 is present.. as copied you.
It is not my fault that a delay might now occur because a new V5 is needed, and not a reasonable reason for you to break a contract.
And for you to state on (an ebay forum) to me that a new buyer wants (a mint / £3000+ motorbike) "without a V5" does rather suggest something underhand is happening.
As I've said all along, the balance of £xxxx awaits you when the bike is kindly delivered. If you refuse to deliver it... I can arrange collection.
This ought not to be the drama it's shaping up... I just want to take ownership as agreed in the ebay terms & conditions.
So, please seek a new V5. Let me know when you have it & I'll take delivery of the bike.
Simon"
...... and then this response...(in full!)
"We have a buyer that accepts no V5
There is nothing under handed
Either take it without the V5 or we will sell it"
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Hmmm, as I say, niceties are not his forte...
There are plenty more SS50s out there, I know, but it's become a bloody case of the red mist. (You've only seen 1/10 of the emails) In the last 2 mins I've written him my account details, and said I'll take a refund... with ..."If you do this you are breaking a binding contract"
I'll not loose sleep over it, but rather take my pleasures out on ebay feedback, along with any other suggestions you guys might have!
Simon.
Hi Ash, yea, the link..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-SS-Fully-Restored-NO-RESERVE-/271752418852?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=URkyGYeGmaOr6D6qM%252BPr%252FU54sPo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
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Under handed (sic)
Bloke is obviously a bozo. Shame, looks a great bike.
If he was that worried about the selling price then shouting no reserve is disingenuous. Bit rich, his actions thereafter. Ebay operates on trust. Do your worst.
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Just got this!!! (In full again)
"When you buy any vehicle you do not receive the V5 directly
we sell many bikes without documents to realistic customers as we can also sell this one without V5
And for more money!"
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Love that word 'realistic'.... plainly I'm a git for not unquestionably handing over a big wad to a shady dealer...!!!
Ho hum..
Ash... Due the (numerous) historical emails in this, with me being polite / accommodating all along, versus his unfriendly / mounting excuses not to sell I reckon I'd have a strong case.... assuming an ebay human reads it!
But frankly, it's only a bike, and not a special one at that, worse things happen at sea etc. I'll take my pleasure out in the feedback area and walk away.
You live & learn eh?
Simon
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The v5 has to be sent off by the seller to notify DVLA so how is he going to do this BUT a small part is retained by the buyer so that he/she can tax the vehicle(don't forget even if Historic it has to be taxed at £0) and that should be passed on.
Ebay is a binding contract and all you can do is leave negative feedback, being very careful and exact in your wording plus complain to ebay
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I wouldn't give up that easily Simon. The chap is obviously a bandit and it makes me wonder if he actually owned the bike in the first place. Some people advertise a product on ebay that they do not own, or are not even in possession of. If they get any interest or a bid they then try and purchase the item from the owner of said item, in this case a bike but it happens regularly with cars also. If they can't have a deal with the real owner at a lower price than what they have sold it for on ebay, they contact the winning bidder and tell a load of porkypies, ie lost V55 and pull out of the deal due to some other erroneous reason.
Personally, I would give him hell and a few sleepless nights
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Seller has a feedback score of 53 with two negatives both for what appears to much the same as you are experiencing. He states he's a dealer but should he not therefore be a business seller? As for legal action, that would be via the County Court and you would have to prove a financial loss because the seller did not proceed with the agreed sale. Ebay will still charge their final value fee as as far as they are concerned the bike sold and at three grand that's a tidy sum unless somehow he's going to get out of that. Do your worst with negative feedback Simon
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Thanks guys...
Julie, my problem is I live & work abroad... and to do anything involving the law would be a non-starter. (and more to the point, why give myself the stress, its only a bike) I do though think you might be right as to his modus operandi - interesting. Whilst I'd like to give him hell / a few sleepless nights.... that would assume he's a caring human being. Somehow, I think he's seasoned in such behaviour & so unlikely gives a sh*t! And as Peter points out, I've not lost out financially.
Very glad to read he'll have to pay ebay regardless... 15% is it?... a tidy sum as you say Peter. I too saw the previous negative feedbacks.... and just hope ebay give me enough character spaces to fully 'do my worst'. And thanks Bryan, will stick to facts rather than being emotive.
I'll wait until the deposit is back in my bank, and then complain to ebay / write a few choice words for his future clients to see.
Ho hum...
Simon
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Yes Simon, get your deposit back first and then let rip to anyone and everyone. It is a real shame when these planks treat genuine buyers like idiots. Im tempted to go and see the Winebago he has for sale but after reading his rules and regulations on how to get an appointment to see it, I don't think I will bother ;D ;D ;D
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I'm losing faith in ebay especially when it comes to vehicles....parts and spares it's still great..
Only this Saturday I had this happen when selling a bmw f650 I picked up cheap
Advertised for spare or repairs project as it had a stood for 5 years and it doesn't interest me at all...
After auction ended I contacted the buyer fairly promptly...and struggled for a reply.
I did eventually get one saying his dad was using his account a had won the auction.
i then struggled to get a collection time from the guy..and was given a mobile number that was dead???
I did figure at this point that the buyer was a nob....and I would hear no more.
Then an email came through saying " I'll collect sat am"
Waited in and a guy turned up saying he had come to look at the bike..( no you've come to pick it up!!!)
After a bit of a wierd wiggle and brake pump he said "sorry it's not for me"
I replied "sorry mate you've brought it its an auction and get your cash out"
Which resulted in him explaining he knew nothing about an ebay add and he only heard about the bike Friday?
At this I lost my rag and told him to f##k off
I really wish I hadn't because perhaps he was telling the truth and I could've got to the bottom of it all but he wasn't hanging around....
Thought that was it but I got an email that evening saying I had wasted his time ( cheeky twat )
Which I kindly replied telling him to belt up and politely added his address to the bottom of the message ( I figured he thought he was safely trolling me anonymously from afar)
Can't get my head around it ...if it was a scam who was winning??...he did turn up in a car so was definately not collecting....
Anyway I still have a bmw I don't want and there is nothing I can do because as you rightly say ebay don't really care...I should get fees back so it's no loss but you have to start all over again...
So to sum it all up Ebay sucks and car and classic is a much nicer place to sell with very genuine buyers and not the usual kebab munching p##s heads bidding when drunk
Hope that makes sense
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Very glad to read he'll have to pay ebay regardless... 15% is it?... a tidy sum as you say Peter. I too saw the previous negative feedbacks.... and just hope ebay give me enough character spaces to fully 'do my worst'. And thanks Bryan, will stick to facts rather than being emotive.
I'll wait until the deposit is back in my bank, and then complain to ebay / write a few choice words for his future clients to see.
Ho hum...
Simon
Sadly it won't cost him that much as eBay Motors fees are under a different structure - £10 to list as an auction then only 1% of final value. No justice.
Just make sure you use the meagre 80 characters you get for feedback wisely, once you have your deposit back!
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Have had further thoughts on this...
Approx 2 yrs ago I saw this same SS50 on ebay at a buy-it-now price; it was one of a stable of restored mopeds. (Gilera, KTM... etc). The price was silly; £4500 or something. I did some research / sums & wrote that I was considering a 400F for £2500, but would prefer the moped if I could have it for this money... which I calculated was fair given the SS50 market. He declined, I said 'no worries' & wished him well on the sale.
Fast forward to now... same moped, same description... still another mint 'other' moped along side it. Ie, in 2 yrs it hasn't sold. So... my guess is the seller is not prepared to let it go at substantially less than what it has cost him. He can't admit to this given the no-reserve auction, and so had to come up with an alternate excuse.
Bottom line....I reckon we'll see it again in the future.
Simon
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Bikes like that, which don't sell for yonks, usually end up at Frank's ( Motorcycles Unlimited) in Greenford. God know what he buys them at and god knows what he actually sells them for. This happened with a CD175A sloper and the Gold JDM CB750K0 he has just 'sold' .
Why not join the SS50 forum if there is one Simon and ask on there if anyone knows the bike or knows of a minter for sale.
Have a go via eBay and then walk away as it's not worth working yourself up any more about it.
What ? you would prefer an SS50 to a 400/4 :D
Ash
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Hah! Good point Ash, 400F or moped!!! Point is, my growing 'toy box' was always destined to have both..and the SS50 was a "I want that one" versus no specific 400F in my sights at that time.
I have indeed sought out a SS50 forum... basically inactive.
There appears to be another minter SS50 on ebay at £3500; it's been there a while: I might fish @ a lower offer after my imminent 2 week hol. (No Internet during this time... yay!)
Funny old thing; I was so nearly swayed to a Fizzy last month... there was a nice looking Popsical Purple one on ebay @ the same time. So.. I joined the Fizzy Forum, and went straight to the introductions, explaining my age (!), how I was a basic Honda man... had had a SS50 @ 16 and got bored at being at the back of the pack! Ended with me saying I was preparing to be converted etc.
Not one bloody reply... miserable tw*ts.
On the plus side it helped make my mind up... and likely I'll stay a Honda dinosaur.
Simon
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Yea other forums can be hostile places Simon!
Mind you 'bikepusher' probably thinks the same about us lot ::)
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The good thing about ebay is that, in the round, things find their true market value. I guess no one can complain about that, but I feel it is aggressively driven to maximise its commission: if you are buying a specific item you cannot see what others who bought that item think about it - you only have the seller's reputation and they probably sell loads of stuff so it's not as good as Amazon, say, for general purchases.
As a tat bazaar - yes great. Selling motors/bikes - the hassle on an uncompleted deal is not so good; wild west.
bikepusher - clue is in the name: pusher
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Coronation St has nothing on this...
Today's development a shock... as my deposit still not returned. Wrote abrupt email saying "Give it back ASAP".... and have now had 3 very apologetic emails explaining that his business was caught in the middle with an owner who didn't want to sell etc etc - and that the sale would now go ahead despite the owner's reluctance because he didn't need the negative publicity. Wow - a different person.
Anyways, I'm told (!) that the V5 should appear relatively quickly, and am hoping for an early March delivery when back from our hols.
Buy hey... there's still tomorrow... plenty of time for more cock-ups...
Off on my hols....
Simon
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Sounds fishy to me Simon and like he's trying to buy time. How long is it since the ebay transaction - you can't open a case / leave negative feedback as a result of a case once 30 days have passed form the date of sale on eBay from memory. Just tread carefully. Personally, I would just get your deposit back and move on....
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Thanks James... will look into this..
Simon
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Translation: other customer has walked.
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Hi again James... feedback upto 60 days. One way or another it should be resolved by then.
Hi Tom... I stand by my 6:28am post today... ie I genuinely think the owner didn't want to let his bike go at a huge loss to himself. (and so concocted the lost V5 story)
Furthermore, the ebay seller, has (albeit slowly) come 'round to the fact that his business will suffer the most in all of this; and that being the fall-guy for his owner mate is not a great plan.
There is definitely a change of heart in today's emails... and being a trusting type of chap (!) I think genuine. We'll see.
And again James, thanks for pointing out the timescale question.
Simon.
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No problems and best of luck with it...keep us posted. James.
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Yes Simon your explanation makes more sense. What a reserve is for.
Crackin' 'ped though. Best of luck!
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Not a ped but this looks tidy
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C579449
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Bloody ebay, i am getting the run around from a buyer, he bought an item and seems to be playing silly games with me , i could do without this sort of shit as a regard myself as a good honest seller
pete
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Not a ped but this looks tidy
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C579449
That is a fantastic little bike, tax exempt AND it's an SOHC:))
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Love it or Loathe it, ebay is pretty handy for both locating stuff at a realistically low used value and for getting a decent price for our expired tat, that is past for us at least, its usefull life. Before ebay if I wanted bits for my cb550, I was constrained to about 3 breakers who would admitt to owning such od stock and who knew how to charge or Dave silvers who whilst very usefull, isn't exactly cheap enough for someone runing an every day useage bike. I have overall saved thousands over the years sourcing various odds and sods off there up to and including cars, motorbikes and dumpers. I have however walked quite often from things that look to be grreat deals if the bidder history looks fishy, the hidden identity of bidders these days makes me more cautious, particualy high value stuff. I was bidding on a dumper and one chap was really running up the bidding, a look at his feedback initially wasn't suspicious, until I looked closer, he'd only ever bought anything expensive off the one seller - the one selling that dumper, and allother transcactions were for 99p bric a brack. I dropped out of the bidding and wasn't surprised when offered a second chance offer soon after the auction ended -no way I was going near it. I got bitten selling our last car, winning bidder was going to collect, but had to get something organised first, could I wait a bit - Ok I thought, contact was good and the chap seemed reasonable right up til day 30 after auction end, then he vanished - geuss what, you get 30 days to report a non paying bidder. After that you pay your ebay fees and cannot get them back. Luckily I re advertised and reached an 'off ebay' deal for just the engine an gearbox, so ebay got their fee off the first deal, and I sold most of the car at the right price, which was still more than a scraper would have given me. As a nice bonus I found out our worthy old 1.9tdi car engine is destined to go in a Ural motorbike. Overall most ebayers are dead tidy folk to deal with, you just need to be caarefull about the higher value transactions, that does seem to attract the con merchants for obvious reasons.
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I love ebay, but every once in a while some f---er spoils it, there seems to be quite a few messers on it , i dont understand the people who bid and then decide they dont want it and go quiet , why?????????????????
pete
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I am ashamed to admit it but a good mate of mine bought a cbr600 off ebay about a decade ago, and then realised he couldn't afford the bike, the insurance or to collect it from Edinburgh. He was a good mate but what a dingus. I think he eventually came clean and admitted his sillyness to the seller, but the temptation to bid now, without doing your homework if you find something ending soon can tempt people to overextended themselfs. Personally I have carried through with every purchase, but I have given myself the odd, ' wish I hadn't done that' moment when trying to organise the collection of something massive like a dumper or forklift - especially as I don't drive.
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Update. (Not good!)
AND ANYONE LOOKING AT AN EBAY SS50 READ THIS.
Due timescales, a new pick-up date of the SS50 was agreed, Weds 04 March, ie 2 weeks after the first 'failed attempt'. Seller all charming now (relatively!) but would not give over his address / phone # 'til nearer the pick-up time'. Hmm. On the Monday he finally did, ... inc a phone number.
So, hired a van (was in Hampshire for just 01 days) and drove over to Crawly. The address a gutted cottage, next to a stone outbuilding. No one there; rang the mobile number, odd ring tone / no pick-up. Texted the #; got a reply, "10 minutes".
He arrived. Surly. Showed us into the outbuilding.... the SS50 very tired, rusted chrome in areas, lifting paint, bent pedal, small tear in seat.... I stopped looking after 30 seconds, it was crap. Luckily I had a mate...(witness)... and told him I'd not be buying the bike as nothing like the advert. He didn't seem bothered at all, and said, "No problem, we've been offered more for it anyway".
So, I queried when I'd get my (bank transfer) deposit back (£500).... he said, "as soon as I get your bank details I'll Internet it across" . We were in a building site... no Wifi...or else I'd have given him my iPad to get going on it..
As of today (Sat) still no cash, but 2 emails to my "where is it?" query blaming problems with his Lloyds bank.... "but it's coming as promised". Hmmm again.
But here's the jaw dropping bit, bearing in mind, from day #1, he's been saying that they've been offered a better price....
Unbelievable... folks, you've been warned... the ad has only minorly been changed - now he's at least admitting to small areas of rust. The no key prob is also new... likely best it's not started!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-SS-Fully-Restored-NO-RESERVE-/271796229216?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item3f48515460
Bottom line; I don't know what's going on.... whether it's a SS50 file photo + (bad) scam, or possibly the owner won't accept that his beloved restoration has rotted into crap. I saw this machine a couple of years back, and saw the V5 Weds... the old type. A bit of me wonders if the restored moped has sat in cold damp places too long, been shunted about (bent pedal etc) and just degraded.... which the owner won't acknowledge. Anyways, run a mile...
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Just sounds like a scam. I reckon: one of us bids and tells the bloke we have no intention of buying. Is that a feedback risk? Don't think so. Happy to get the ball rolling ;D
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What a bummer Simon !!... feel for you mate ... so disheartening. I remember when I was duped over a sandcast rear wheel by a guy in the States off EBay ... the guys on Hondachopper.com felt real sorry for me and they offered to get a posse together to ride over and sort the seller out... I diplomatically talked them out of it :D.
Ash
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Well Simon, not me, but I reckon my campaign idea is a go-er!
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Hiya Tom.
Thanks. But unsure what your plan of action is! If you bid & win the auction you are entering a binding contract (I think)... which down the track - assuming you don't pay - may come back to haunt you? That said... in this case, you'd always have the get-out (as I do) that the bike is nothing like as described.
I'm an optimist (ha!) ... and hoping that he eventually 'finds' my £500. I'll delay posting terrible things on feedback a few more days.
But... he seems to be some kind of trader, and when push comes to shove stands to loose a whole lot more than £500. I don't need the cash 'today', ... I've oodles of time...... & I enjoy a challenge. If he wants to involve the law... then fine.
Yesterday I vowed I'd never buy another vehicle off ebay. But, my Moto Guzzi is perfect; that seller was a gent. And on so reflection I realise that t***s like this SS50 arsehole are probably few & far between.
As I say, I like to think I'm an optimist,
Simon
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I bought my VFR on the strength of the listing only - turned out the seller was in the services - that is always a good sign.
No - I think we need a campaign. I've already messaged him to say I know the bike is crap.
Edit: Bell end has added a load of keywords for search hits.
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Erm... thanks?! Still chasing my -£500!
Simon
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I don't believe in all that contractual bullsh1t
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Just to add that I just walked away from winning a YBR125 because it transpired the condition wasn't what I was hoping for and seller was a dealer, though not disclosed as such, and wanted cash.
Moral: don't pay anything until you've seen it. If you win then I think it's OK (morally and everything else) to then view and walk if you don't like *for good reasons*. My VFR was textbook so I've had both experiences.
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Finally, I've had my £500 deposit returned. What a bloody palaver it's been... frankly I was beginning to think it was going to get worse - ie small claims court.
Working abroad, and not able to pre-view bikes (whatever) I reckon this'll be my last venture into ebay for a while... tho' to be fair, the 'Guzzi was a big success.
As an honest chap I'm bloody baffled / disappointed at how devious / low others can be.
Ya live'n'learn eh?
Simon
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Well done
I am real pleased for you.. it didn't sound good for a while
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Well done simon, glad you got it resolved.